ripsean21 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: How are we going to get a good QB while remaining mediocre and drafting in the late teens? This is a major problem for this organization and has been almost every year for nearly 30 years. Staying in mediocrity is not helping us build a Super Bowl contending team. We need a QB. We can figure the rest out after that as other franchises have done over and over after getting their franchise QB. I’ll be shocked if Rivera traded Jon Allen. I’ll continually say that. I don’t see that happening unless it’s in a package to get a pro bowl caliber QB. I don’t want to trade Jon unless it’s obvious that we are making the hard choice in the future. And that was just a suggestion to not wait for a comp. Finding a QB is hard and it takes really good scouts then it takes a really good FO and staff to listen and then a ton of luck in hopes that that pick makes it to you at the juncture your picking in hopes to draft them. But players that turn into franchise guys get picked wherever. It’s about fit and coaches and most importantly the player. It’s gotta be inside the player I know for however many years we’ve sucked but the truth is it takes one pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganF89 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 3 hours ago, turtle28 said: How are we going to get a good QB while remaining mediocre and drafting in the late teens? This is a major problem for this organization and has been almost every year for nearly 30 years. Staying in mediocrity is not helping us build a Super Bowl contending team. We need a QB. We can figure the rest out after that as other franchises have done over and over after getting their franchise QB. I’ll be shocked if Rivera traded Jon Allen. I’ll continually say that. I don’t see that happening unless it’s in a package to get a pro bowl caliber QB. Brady 199 wilson 75 brees 32 Cousins 102 watson 12 rodgers 24 dalton 35 jackson 32 carr 36 prescott i get so tired of hearing people talk about not getting a franchise guy outside the top 10, the majority of the top franchise QBs weren’t too 10 and arguably the best 3 or 4 the last decade in Wilson, Rodgers, Brees, and Brady weren’t top 10 you can get a franchise guy later, just has to be the right fit. so tired of the narrative that they have to be a top 5 or 10 pick. i honestly think this team would be a good spot for QBs like Wilson, Lance, and Mond Mond was just senior bowl MVP for every hit in the top 10 there are just as many bust 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 58 minutes ago, LoganF89 said: Brady 199 wilson 75 brees 32 Cousins 102 watson 12 rodgers 24 dalton 35 jackson 32 carr 36 prescott i get so tired of hearing people talk about not getting a franchise guy outside the top 10, the majority of the top franchise QBs weren’t too 10 and arguably the best 3 or 4 the last decade in Wilson, Rodgers, Brees, and Brady weren’t top 10 you can get a franchise guy later, just has to be the right fit. so tired of the narrative that they have to be a top 5 or 10 pick. i honestly think this team would be a good spot for QBs like Wilson, Lance, and Mond Mond was just senior bowl MVP for every hit in the top 10 there are just as many bust 10 guys in 20 years? That’s such a great hit rate! And Watson shouldn’t be on that list, he was 12th. Big Ben was 11th in 2004, they were still selected in the top half of the first round of their drafts. Sure it’s not impossible to find a franchise QB after round 1 - or even after the top 15 as E says - but it’s very, very unlikely, it’s like finding a needle in a haystack. It’s very unlikely that we find a franchise QB other than taking one in the top 15. If we want our best chance at getting one we should trade up into the top 10 - preferably with the Lions - and then take whoever is the best available QB who’s there. Edited February 3, 2021 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganF89 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, turtle28 said: 10 guys in 20 years? That’s such a great hit rate! And Watson shouldn’t be on that list, he was 12th. Big Ben was 11th in 2004, they were still selected in the top half of the first round of their drafts. Sure it’s not impossible to find a franchise QB after round 1 - or even after the top 15 as E says - but it’s very, very unlikely, it’s like finding a needle in a haystack. It’s very unlikely that we find a franchise QB other than taking one in the top 15. If we want our best chance at getting one we should trade up into the top 10 - preferably with the Lions - and then take whoever is the best available QB who’s there. Like I said it’s all about fit and the work put in. If a player has a good work ethic and the talent they will make it happen. I didn’t even mention Romo in there either. just get tired of hearing you gotta be a high first rounder to succeed, I mean Goff, Wentz, Winston, Trubisky, Gabbert, Rosen, Ponder, locker, bottles, Sanchez, Bradford, RG3, Marriotts, Manuel every one of those guys this Decade was taken in the top half of the first round and none solidified themselves as the guy..... way more misses than hits IMO, that’s why I’m not sold on having to be this high first rounder scheme, fit, ability, potential, work ethic, talent. idc what round you are in or if your undrafted. If you have those characteristics you can make it in the league, just need the chance to prove it. That’s why I’m all on board if we resign Heinicke, Allen, and draft Mond like I’ve been beating the table for. They all fit this offense. If we get a shot to sign Dak that works too bc he’s also a fit. But like I said the criticism that you have to be a high first rounder is asinine fields, Lance, Wilson, and Mond all fit this offense and we have a small chance at Lance and a good shot at Mond later. I’m not mortgaging a bunch of picks to a player we know nothing about. Edited February 3, 2021 by LoganF89 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 4 hours ago, LoganF89 said: Like I said it’s all about fit and the work put in. If a player has a good work ethic and the talent they will make it happen. I didn’t even mention Romo in there either. just get tired of hearing you gotta be a high first rounder to succeed, I mean Goff, Wentz, Winston, Trubisky, Gabbert, Rosen, Ponder, locker, bottles, Sanchez, Bradford, RG3, Marriotts, Manuel every one of those guys this Decade was taken in the top half of the first round and none solidified themselves as the guy..... way more misses than hits IMO, that’s why I’m not sold on having to be this high first rounder scheme, fit, ability, potential, work ethic, talent. idc what round you are in or if your undrafted. If you have those characteristics you can make it in the league, just need the chance to prove it. That’s why I’m all on board if we resign Heinicke, Allen, and draft Mond like I’ve been beating the table for. They all fit this offense. If we get a shot to sign Dak that works too bc he’s also a fit. But like I said the criticism that you have to be a high first rounder is asinine fields, Lance, Wilson, and Mond all fit this offense and we have a small chance at Lance and a good shot at Mond later. I’m not mortgaging a bunch of picks to a player we know nothing about. I’m with you on the fits and everything. I see the counter to the takes but at the same time like you said identify what your looking for. Also this offseason there’s more talk of movement then I can ever remember. So let the tables turn and let the teams infront of you make their moves. This offseason reminds me so much of the Dallas/ Seattle offseasons. They both wanted to upgrade that position Dallas had Romo coming off 2 consecutive injuries and they missed on a few guys Dak got in camp excited the team and Romo went down and he’s been great for them. Russell was drafted to develop behind Flynn in Seattle who was just signed a big contract and Russell beat him. im not saying don’t try to sign a Mariota who fits. Heck Rivera could even sign Cam for all I care. Do I trust him to play a Mond if he beats out a Cam? No. But I am with you on the names and fit. I just think about us coming out of round one with one of the top 3 CB’s to pair with Fuller or maybe a Tucker or doubtful but a Waddle/ Pitts fall. But you come back and get Mond to hopefully develop and you go into camp with the idea of rolling with one of the other guys Taylor or Alex maybe or Marcus or Cam and you just added to the defense to really give you that top flight unit or you added a few pieces to the offense I just I would throw money if Mond was drafted here and we don’t make a crazy trade that guy matches any of those names in camp. He’s a smart kid and clearly your seeing the ball placement and decisions and how he stands tall in the pocket and keeps a level head he is always calm I just we’re definitely on this boat together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 11 hours ago, LoganF89 said: Like I said it’s all about fit and the work put in. If a player has a good work ethic and the talent they will make it happen. I didn’t even mention Romo in there either. just get tired of hearing you gotta be a high first rounder to succeed, I mean Goff, Wentz, Winston, Trubisky, Gabbert, Rosen, Ponder, locker, bottles, Sanchez, Bradford, RG3, Marriotts, Manuel every one of those guys this Decade was taken in the top half of the first round and none solidified themselves as the guy..... way more misses than hits IMO, that’s why I’m not sold on having to be this high first rounder scheme, fit, ability, potential, work ethic, talent. idc what round you are in or if your undrafted. If you have those characteristics you can make it in the league, just need the chance to prove it. That’s why I’m all on board if we resign Heinicke, Allen, and draft Mond like I’ve been beating the table for. They all fit this offense. If we get a shot to sign Dak that works too bc he’s also a fit. But like I said the criticism that you have to be a high first rounder is asinine fields, Lance, Wilson, and Mond all fit this offense and we have a small chance at Lance and a good shot at Mond later. I’m not mortgaging a bunch of picks to a player we know nothing about. Not disagreeing with you at all. Consider this. You've identified 4 QBs and have ranked them on your scale in terms of fit, etc... The top candidate has a 90% fit rate to what you're looking for #2 is around 70% #3 is around 50% #4 is around 40% We pick 19th. Now keep in mind that these are not the only QBs out there. There will be other highly rated QBs that other teams like better that we don't like as fits for the team. So with that in mind: Number 1 goes with the 7th pick. #2 goes with pick #10 #3 goes at 13 #4 is available at our pick at 19. At the 10th pick we could've traded up and given up very little to get to pick 6 or 7 to get the QB. We could've also drafted #2 (or #3 if we really wanted him) with the natural pick. So yes...it is absolutely about fit. You are correct. The point is that with the higher pick you are more able to get that player that you covet rather than watch them get drafted away before you get a chance to get them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, LoganF89 said: I get so tired of hearing people talk about not getting a franchise guy outside the top 10, the majority of the top franchise QBs weren’t too 10 and arguably the best 3 or 4 the last decade in Wilson, Rodgers, Brees, and Brady weren’t top 10 Rodgers, Brees, and Brady were all drafted more than 15 years ago, Brady and Brees more than 20 years ago. The evaluation of QBs has changed in a decade and a half (or longer), as has the entire world. The information now available to us at the tip of our fingers dwarfs what anyone could access that many years. Consider that when Brees and Brady were drafted, you still had to go through a whole dialing process just to access the internet. They were relying on VHS tapes and the limitations of in-person scouting to evaluate guys. Now, every member of the organization can watch every snap of every possible prospect in high definition from multiple camera angles at any time. Which is the primary reason why you can’t really look at the way they scouted QBs long ago and apply it to today. There have been so many advancements that have made it easier to scout these guys, and teams just aren’t missing many potential franchise QBs anymore. They make lots of bad picks in addition to the good ones, but very few guys capable of playing the position at the highest level are making it past every team. As I’ve said before in other threads: they haven’t quite figured out how to determine who is going to be a star QB, but they’re pretty good at determining who isn’t. Edited February 3, 2021 by e16bball 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 We can keep it pretty simple, though. I’ll take the top 12 picks, you get the rest of the draft. When we narrow it to the last 15 drafts or so, you get Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Dak Prescott, Kirk Cousins, Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco, Derek Carr, Colin Kaepernick, Teddy Bridgewater, and Jimmy Garoppolo. That’s your top 10 QBs in 15 years. That’s out of 146 picks used on QBs in that span. You’re going to add the likes of Mac Jones, Kyle Trask, Kellen Mond, and Jamie Newman to your group this year. I get Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Matthew Stafford, Andrew Luck, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, Ryan Tannehill, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, etc. That’s out of 32 picks used on QBs in that span. I’m going to add Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, and probably Trey Lance to my group this year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 No to Matt Ryan... No to Carr No to Watson Yes to Rodgers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said: No to Matt Ryan... No to Carr No to Watson Yes to Rodgers You've posted this in like 6 different threads now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, e16bball said: We can keep it pretty simple, though. I’ll take the top 12 picks, you get the rest of the draft. When we narrow it to the last 15 drafts or so, you get Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Dak Prescott, Kirk Cousins, Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco, Derek Carr, Colin Kaepernick, Teddy Bridgewater, and Jimmy Garoppolo. That’s your top 10 QBs in 15 years. That’s out of 146 picks used on QBs in that span. You’re going to add the likes of Mac Jones, Kyle Trask, Kellen Mond, and Jamie Newman to your group this year. I get Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Matthew Stafford, Andrew Luck, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, Ryan Tannehill, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, etc. That’s out of 32 picks used on QBs in that span. I’m going to add Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, and probably Trey Lance to my group this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: You've posted this in like 6 different threads now. Yes, I'm willing it to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganF89 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Thaiphoon said: Not disagreeing with you at all. Consider this. You've identified 4 QBs and have ranked them on your scale in terms of fit, etc... The top candidate has a 90% fit rate to what you're looking for #2 is around 70% #3 is around 50% #4 is around 40% We pick 19th. Now keep in mind that these are not the only QBs out there. There will be other highly rated QBs that other teams like better that we don't like as fits for the team. So with that in mind: Number 1 goes with the 7th pick. #2 goes with pick #10 #3 goes at 13 #4 is available at our pick at 19. At the 10th pick we could've traded up and given up very little to get to pick 6 or 7 to get the QB. We could've also drafted #2 (or #3 if we really wanted him) with the natural pick. So yes...it is absolutely about fit. You are correct. The point is that with the higher pick you are more able to get that player that you covet rather than watch them get drafted away before you get a chance to get them. If it came down to making playoffs or picking 9 picks higher then I’m making playoffs. I’m not gonna root for this team to lose if we can get playoff experience. Just look at what happened to Pederson after that philly game.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganF89 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 hours ago, e16bball said: We can keep it pretty simple, though. I’ll take the top 12 picks, you get the rest of the draft. When we narrow it to the last 15 drafts or so, you get Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Dak Prescott, Kirk Cousins, Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco, Derek Carr, Colin Kaepernick, Teddy Bridgewater, and Jimmy Garoppolo. That’s your top 10 QBs in 15 years. That’s out of 146 picks used on QBs in that span. You’re going to add the likes of Mac Jones, Kyle Trask, Kellen Mond, and Jamie Newman to your group this year. I get Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Matthew Stafford, Andrew Luck, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, Ryan Tannehill, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, etc. That’s out of 32 picks used on QBs in that span. I’m going to add Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, and probably Trey Lance to my group this year. And how many Super Bowl wins as a starter, does your side have? 1 and that was last years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 3 hours ago, aceinthehouse said: No to Matt Ryan... No to Carr No to Watson Yes to Rodgers Yeah, that’s like me saying as a 5’6 guy: no to 5’7 no to 5’8 no to 5’9 Yes to 5’10 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.