Watson trade talk!!!!!!

[xrade]

1 minute ago, xenajets said:

I’m down for sitting the rookie if need be but only if we somehow had a Winston/Mariota (if cut) or someone with high upside. Will put my head through the wall if we have the qb equivalent of Frank Gore starting week one. 

If we can land Fitz, Smith, Dalton maybe even Flacco, they could start the season until the rook is ready to take over. These guys have filled that intermediate starter/backup role quite well. Winston and Mariotta are like Sam. Young enough to still see themselves as starters but with a lot of cleanup work that needs to be done. We don’t need that. We need a true vet that can play the role for half a season then relinquish the starting QB role to the rook as well as mentor the him. How would Winston and Mariotta mentor the rook, by showing what not to do?  And what does high upside have to do with being a backup? High upside is what you want from a future starter. These guys won’t be that on this team. 

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, xrade said:

If we can land Fitz, Smith, Dalton maybe even Flacco, they could start the season until the rook is ready to take over. These guys have filled that intermediate starter/backup role quite well. Winston and Mariotta are like Sam. Young enough to still see themselves as starters but with a lot of cleanup work that needs to be done. We don’t need that. We need a true vet that can play the role for half a season then relinquish the starting QB role to the rook as well as mentor the him. How would Winston and Mariotta mentor the rook, by showing what not to do?  And what does high upside have to do with being a backup? High upside is what you want from a future starter. These guys won’t be that on this team. 

Ya and then the rookie punches a teammate in the face and they start the vet the whole season. And then we get tricked into paying that guy and letting the young guy bomb 😉 

[KimuraGod]

46 minutes ago, xrade said:

If we can land Fitz, Smith, Dalton maybe even Flacco, they could start the season until the rook is ready to take over. These guys have filled that intermediate starter/backup role quite well. Winston and Mariotta are like Sam. Young enough to still see themselves as starters but with a lot of cleanup work that needs to be done. We don’t need that. We need a true vet that can play the role for half a season then relinquish the starting QB role to the rook as well as mentor the him. How would Winston and Mariotta mentor the rook, by showing what not to do?  And what does high upside have to do with being a backup? High upside is what you want from a future starter. These guys won’t be that on this team. 

That’s what I mean if we go the real vet route then I want us to do everything possible to get the young guy in by week 3/4 so that we have time to see him in action. 
 

If we did go the Mariota/Winston route then I’d be more inclined to let them play longer and hopefully increase their trade value that by year 2 our rookie would be ready to go and we get a decent pick for our vet qb. Best case scenario it’s like KC. 

[KimuraGod]

46 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Ya and then the rookie punches a teammate in the face and they start the vet the whole season. And then we get tricked into paying that guy and letting the young guy bomb 😉 

If there was anything that summed up my life as a Jets fan it would be this incident!!! Starts out with promise and ends up in disaster. 

[Jag68Sid87]

Well, my idea of starting a veteran is someone like Alex Smith because he has experience in the West Coast offense, can start and can come off the bench, and is the type of inspirational leader who can galvanize this team. Drew Brees is another guy I would like for a year, if he is interested in continuing his career. Teddy Bridgewater is younger but also a guy who could be a nice fit. I doubt he would have interest in returning here, after the way we dumped him. Flacco and Dalton seem like the wrong fit for a West Coast offense, although I could be wrong. Fitzpatrick, like Bridgewater, is unlikely to have much interest in returning here. Tyrod Taylor and Cam Newton are more of the running QB types, but both could be nice bridge quarterbacks to someone like Justin Fields or Trey Lance. 

I agree that C.J. Beathard would not be a good bridge QB, and would almost certainly force the team to start the rookie. The guy we pick up has to be someone we would be comfortable starting, not just holding the clipboard for the rookie.

[Bobby816]

4 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

Well, my idea of starting a veteran is someone like Alex Smith because he has experience in the West Coast offense, can start and can come off the bench, and is the type of inspirational leader who can galvanize this team. Drew Brees is another guy I would like for a year, if he is interested in continuing his career. Teddy Bridgewater is younger but also a guy who could be a nice fit. I doubt he would have interest in returning here, after the way we dumped him. Flacco and Dalton seem like the wrong fit for a West Coast offense, although I could be wrong. Fitzpatrick, like Bridgewater, is unlikely to have much interest in returning here. Tyrod Taylor and Cam Newton are more of the running QB types, but both could be nice bridge quarterbacks to someone like Justin Fields or Trey Lance. 

I agree that C.J. Beathard would not be a good bridge QB, and would almost certainly force the team to start the rookie. The guy we pick up has to be someone we would be comfortable starting, not just holding the clipboard for the rookie.

If we draft Wilson I do think he shouldn’t start week 1. I don’t think he’s NFL ready. We draft Fields and I think he can start week 1. I do think getting a vet that’s good though hurts us. Bc we win games and they never turn to the rookie. We sign Smith and start winning.... we don’t play that rookie like we should. A guy like Flacco was perfect for us. 

[Jag68Sid87]

10 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

If we draft Wilson I do think he shouldn’t start week 1. I don’t think he’s NFL ready. We draft Fields and I think he can start week 1. I do think getting a vet that’s good though hurts us. Bc we win games and they never turn to the rookie. We sign Smith and start winning.... we don’t play that rookie like we should. A guy like Flacco was perfect for us. 

Dude, I WANT to starting winning games for crying out loud. Enough with this loser mentality. Hopefully, Saleh can come in here and change the culture so that even we fans can actually start to think more in terms of winning football games on Sunday. 

If we draft a guy and Alex Smith balls out and keeps the rookie on the sidelines, that is absolutely fine with me. Smith cannot be there forever, so as long as the rookie practices well and is ready for when his number is called, it is win-win for us.

I wouldn't want Fields starting Week 1. I want someone familiar with the West Coast offense who will give us the best chance to win the game, right away.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Jag68Sid87
typo

[Bobby816]

36 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

Dude, I WANT to starting winning games for crying out loud. Enough with this loser mentality. Hopefully, Saleh can come in here and change the culture so that even we fans can actually start to think more in terms of winning football games on Sunday. 

If we draft a guy and Alex Smith balls out and keeps the rookie on the sidelines, that is absolutely fine with me. Smith cannot be there forever, so as long as the rookie practices well and is ready for when his number is called, it is win-win for us.

I wouldn't want Fields starting Week 1. I want someone familiar with the West Coast offense who will give us the best chance to win the game, right away.

So sign Fitz or Smith and win 7-8 games. Put us in a bad draft spot and get tricked into paying that guy again. All while not having a franchise QB? No thanks. 

[Jag68Sid87]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

So sign Fitz or Smith and win 7-8 games. Put us in a bad draft spot and get tricked into paying that guy again. All while not having a franchise QB? No thanks. 

We have two first rounders next year. We will get better via the draft next year regardless of where we end up. Enough with the losing.

If we get "tricked" again by veteran performances, we don't have the right people running the operation...again. 

NOT starting the rookie quarterback we draft gives us a better chance of developing a "franchise QB", history suggests. Not just our miserable history, but around the league. Those who sit early generally develop better than those who do not. 

[GangGreen420]

The last thing I want to see this franchise do is trot Zach Wilson out onto the field opening day 

[xrade]

2 hours ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

We have two first rounders next year. We will get better via the draft next year regardless of where we end up. Enough with the losing.

If we get "tricked" again by veteran performances, we don't have the right people running the operation...again. 

NOT starting the rookie quarterback we draft gives us a better chance of developing a "franchise QB", history suggests. Not just our miserable history, but around the league. Those who sit early generally develop better than those who do not. 

I agree with most things you say, but I would have little doubt the rookie would be starting by mid season. This is why it is crucial we get a vet QB that will accept the role which also includes mentoring.

Also, I want to win next year and not have to change the channel at half time, but not at the expense of sustainability. Give me improvement this year and playoff ready in 2022.

[drew39k]

I cannot believe people are advocating bringing back Joe Flacco. The dude looked worse than Darnold... His yolo pick that cost us the Patriots game was unforgivable. If you just need a punching bag to start the year and Flacco is your best option just keep Sam for the season and let your beloved rookie beat him after x many weeks. Joe flacco is NEVER the answer.

[xrade]

27 minutes ago, drew39k said:

The dude looked worse than Darnold... His yolo pick that cost us the Patriots game was unforgivable

Flacco had a higher QBR and lower int rate on the same crappy team with the same crappy play calling. Sam did have a higher completion % but that is to be expected with the dink and dunk crap Sam utilized as evidence by his lower Y/A. Sam also had a higher sack % which for a young mobile QB should not happen vs an old statue. This tells me Sam does not have good pocket awareness.  Flacco had 3 TD’s and 262 yards against NE. Sam’s highest yards per  game occurred in week 16 against the Pats he threw for 266 with 1 TD and 2 ints. All this scrutiny bears the eye test. Flacco was a better QB for the Jets than Sam.

I am not suggesting Joe should be a starting QB for this team. I am suggesting there are worse vet QB’s than Flacco to mentor and start the season while the rookie learns.  Also, Sam must go.

 

[drew39k]

1 hour ago, xrade said:

Flacco had a higher QBR and lower int rate on the same crappy team with the same crappy play calling. Sam did have a higher completion % but that is to be expected with the dink and dunk crap Sam utilized as evidence by his lower Y/A. Sam also had a higher sack % which for a young mobile QB should not happen vs an old statue. This tells me Sam does not have good pocket awareness.  Flacco had 3 TD’s and 262 yards against NE. Sam’s highest yards per  game occurred in week 16 against the Pats he threw for 266 with 1 TD and 2 ints. All this scrutiny bears the eye test. Flacco was a better QB for the Jets than Sam.

I am not suggesting Joe should be a starting QB for this team. I am suggesting there are worse vet QB’s than Flacco to mentor and start the season while the rookie learns.  Also, Sam must go.

 

Flacco benefitted from playing when Mims, Perriman and Crowder were all healthy. You also are not accounting for the fact that Gase turned over play calling durning the Flacco games, then when Darnold was healthy, took the play calling role back. 

Eye test proves Flacco was worse than Darnold. I'm sorry that your bias against Darnold fails to allowing to fairly measure and rate his skill level. The simple fact is that Flacco had better weapons and a better play caller and still took awful sacks and had costly turnovers. He was supposed to be the experienced veteran and he still played like ****.   

[xrade]

9 hours ago, drew39k said:

Flacco benefitted from playing when Mims, Perriman and Crowder were all healthy. You also are not accounting for the fact that Gase turned over play calling durning the Flacco games, then when Darnold was healthy, took the play calling role back. 

Eye test proves Flacco was worse than Darnold. I'm sorry that your bias against Darnold fails to allowing to fairly measure and rate his skill level. The simple fact is that Flacco had better weapons and a better play caller and still took awful sacks and had costly turnovers. He was supposed to be the experienced veteran and he still played like ****.   

The eye test does show Flacco, in his limited playing time, to be better than Sam. You mention one int on a deep throw with 5+ min on the clock in the 4th Q with the Jets up by 7.  Flacco made a bad decision deep pass. At least he can throw a deep pass. But since we will never agree on that we move along.

Ask yourself why Flacco was allowed to audible and Sam was not. Could it be Sam was incapable of it?  Sam had the same weapons for more games.

The Pats game was one of the first game Mims, Perriman, and Crowder played together. Flaccos favorite target that game was Perriman. Sam played with the same three WR when he returned agains the Fins and predictably had a 0 TD, 2 int game. Crowder was Sam’s favorite target all year. Why? Because he feared going down the field with the ball. I am not sure if he feared throwing the long ball which we all know he was not especially good at or feared the amount of time it took to throw the ball deep. He always felt he was being pressured even if there was none. He had no poise in the pocket. Watch Flacco, more poise.

I have no bias towards Sam. I loved the pick when we got him. I was hopeful he was going to be better in 2020 after a decent last half of the 2019 season. Then I watched game after game of him making bad decisions and dumping off the ball and taking bad sacks and playing scared. I wanted Sam to be it but has shown he was not. That was really cemented in me when Flacco did come in and looked less crappy in the same crappy O. Then I knew it wasn’t just the bad O but Sam as well. If you want to ignore the facts because you still think Sam is good. Fine. I will not argue with someone who knows he is right despite the actual evidence to the contrary. I would ask what skills he has displayed that you speak of.