Rebuilding the OL

[Chiefer]

What if Niang doesn’t come back from injury like we hoped, like so many Chiefs before him? Or gets hurt again? Those are contingencies we have to plan for. 
 

im not opposed to a double dip at OL in the first and second rounds like the colts did to fix their OL.

[onejayhawk]

Last summer they were talking early October, so he likely has fully recovered  We should find out for certain when free agency starts.

J

[kingseanjohn]

1 hour ago, samsel23 said:

They’re mobility is not that much different.  Neither should be playing LT in the NFL.  I’m not going to move from that, but I’m willing to eat my words if it happens.   
 

Put Eichenberg at RT and he’s getting praised for his athleticism also,  is all I’m saying.   Just seems like we’re overrating what Niang is because it’s a need and he was a decently high draft pick. 

I think Niang could play LT. Probably not an All-Pro, but average at least. I also think he'd be an even better RT.

I'm hoping that we can get one of the following in the 1st: Alijah Vera-Tucker, Jalen Mayfield, or Samuel Cosmi. I'd support trading up to 20-25 in the unlikely event Christian Darrisaw was still available. Would probably take our 1st + 2nd though. I think he'd be worth it. Anyone else I'd rather stay put and go BPA. We can get a quality OT in the 2nd if the top guys are gone.

[onejayhawk]

Cosmi is not a move up player. 

J

[KC_Guy]

Just re-read what I wrote in late January about the OL already assuming (albeit under slightly different circumstances) neither Fisher nor Schwartz would be available for 2021. I think it's still a valid approach to build the OL on a close budget. The omly issue I (still) have - and I elaborated a bit durichg TCMD - is going with two rookie OT with only Remmers, Wylie and may be Rankin behind them.

Two things to keep in mind: Wylie is a RFA and can be brought back on max a 2nd round tender (worth approx. 3.4 M$). Osemele was a good find. We'll have to see if he can come back from injury. He won't cost more than last year (vet min, approx 1.2 M$  if I remember correctly). Net cap hit for both would be just over 3 M$ - unless they get Wylie back on an even cheaper deal.

Any additional guy being brought in I'd consider a plus.

Edited March 13, 2021 by KC_Guy

[onejayhawk]

For all of you who dislike Austin Reiter, he made an all star team
https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/gallery/kansas-city-chiefs-football-outsiders-all-afc-west-team-patrick-mahomes-travis-kelce-tyreek-hill-chris-jones/

J

[mayanfootball]

1 hour ago, onejayhawk said:

For all of you who dislike Austin Reiter, he made an all star team
https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/gallery/kansas-city-chiefs-football-outsiders-all-afc-west-team-patrick-mahomes-travis-kelce-tyreek-hill-chris-jones/

J

Not sure where else to put this: How does B.Breeland make this grouping and not L.Sneed. Breeland was less than impressive in the S.Bowl.

[Jakuvious]

2 hours ago, onejayhawk said:

For all of you who dislike Austin Reiter, he made an all star team
https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/gallery/kansas-city-chiefs-football-outsiders-all-afc-west-team-patrick-mahomes-travis-kelce-tyreek-hill-chris-jones/

J

I can buy Reiter over Denver and LAC's centers, as neither exactly have convincing OLs either, but any ranking that puts Reiter over Hudson is wrong.

[Jakuvious]

14 hours ago, Chiefer said:

What if Niang doesn’t come back from injury like we hoped, like so many Chiefs before him? Or gets hurt again? Those are contingencies we have to plan for. 
 

im not opposed to a double dip at OL in the first and second rounds like the colts did to fix their OL.

I agree, whole-heartedly. The optimism around Niang has gone way above what he's actually shown (which is, nothing.) You go in assuming he can start, and you're absolutely screwed if he is overwhelmed or not ready. You need some plan beyond Niang if you plan on 2021 being another compete for the superbowl kind of season. If Niang is ready, awesome, then we just have a good play in place if someone gets hurt. But I don't think you can go into 2021 with an OT line up of, say, Niang at LT, Remmers at RT, and Durant as the backup. If both unproven guys fail, you've got nothing at LT, and that'll sink us at some point.

[onejayhawk]

37 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

I can buy Reiter over Denver and LAC's centers, as neither exactly have convincing OLs either, but any ranking that puts Reiter over Hudson is wrong.

I can accept that. Then again, Hudson's play is no longer what you remember. 

48 minutes ago, mayanfootball said:

Not sure where else to put this: How does B.Breeland make this grouping and not L.Sneed. Breeland was less than impressive in the S.Bowl.

Sneed missed half the season. The whole team was off in the SB. 

35 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

I agree, whole-heartedly. The optimism around Niang has gone way above what he's actually shown (which is, nothing.) You go in assuming he can start, and you're absolutely screwed if he is overwhelmed or not ready. You need some plan beyond Niang if you plan on 2021 being another compete for the superbowl kind of season. If Niang is ready, awesome, then we just have a good play in place if someone gets hurt. But I don't think you can go into 2021 with an OT line up of, say, Niang at LT, Remmers at RT, and Durant as the backup. If both unproven guys fail, you've got nothing at LT, and that'll sink us at some point.

What optimism? He was highly rated last year and he's healthy. There is nothing more to it than that.

Relying on his is essentially the same as relying on a first round pick to start from day one. At least we have the assurance that the team knows him and that he knows the team. Talentwise, he is as good as anyone we are likely to have available at #31.

J

[RedGold]

1 hour ago, Jakuvious said:

I can buy Reiter over Denver and LAC's centers, as neither exactly have convincing OLs either, but any ranking that puts Reiter over Hudson is wrong.

I got a laugh out of Hardman making it as a returner.   As they put the AFC West didn’t have good returner, but Hardman was not good back there 

[Jakuvious]

52 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

What optimism? He was highly rated last year and he's healthy. There is nothing more to it than that.

Relying on his is essentially the same as relying on a first round pick to start from day one. At least we have the assurance that the team knows him and that he knows the team. Talentwise, he is as good as anyone we are likely to have available at #31.

J

He was rated as a mid-round pick, and we have no idea if he's healthy. Saying he was highly rated and is healthy, is inherently optimistic.

Beyond that, there are obvious red flags about trusting Niang compared to a first round pick, though ideally, we don't exclusively rely on a first round pick either. But Niang was not graded as a first round pick, played exclusively RT (and some projected him to need to stay there), hasn't played in a year and a half, and has a hip injury, which is very difficult to gauge. There are so many more red flags there than relying on a standard first round pick. When we had CEH start at RB, really the only question was the standard college to NFL transition. Niang has much more to worry about than that.

And again, if he pans out, great. But this whole, let's just pencil him in at LT and say we're good, is absurdly optimistic. We saw what the transition from RT to LT did to Remmers. We've seen this coaching staff bench similarly athletically gifted guys, even drafted higher, who they don't trust with the mental aspect of the game, like Willie Gay. We've seen guys never seem to recover from what we hoped would be simple injuries, with Berry or Schwartz. Niang has all of these as possibilities next year. It's fine to hope he passes all tests with flying colors, but 6 months out from the season you can't afford to assume that's the case. You need a functional plan if Niang has a setback or can't cut it. And the superbowl showed that it can't be Remmers at LT. So you need to add something at LT, either a proper starter or at least a better insurance policy.

[onejayhawk]

28 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

He was rated as a mid-round pick, and we have no idea if he's healthy. Saying he was highly rated and is healthy, is inherently optimistic.

Beyond that, there are obvious red flags about trusting Niang compared to a first round pick, though ideally, we don't exclusively rely on a first round pick either. But Niang was not graded as a first round pick, played exclusively RT (and some projected him to need to stay there), hasn't played in a year and a half, and has a hip injury, which is very difficult to gauge. There are so many more red flags there than relying on a standard first round pick. When we had CEH start at RB, really the only question was the standard college to NFL transition. Niang has much more to worry about than that.

And again, if he pans out, great. But this whole, let's just pencil him in at LT and say we're good, is absurdly optimistic. We saw what the transition from RT to LT did to Remmers. We've seen this coaching staff bench similarly athletically gifted guys, even drafted higher, who they don't trust with the mental aspect of the game, like Willie Gay. We've seen guys never seem to recover from what we hoped would be simple injuries, with Berry or Schwartz. Niang has all of these as possibilities next year. It's fine to hope he passes all tests with flying colors, but 6 months out from the season you can't afford to assume that's the case. You need a functional plan if Niang has a setback or can't cut it. And the superbowl showed that it can't be Remmers at LT. So you need to add something at LT, either a proper starter or at least a better insurance policy.

He was rated mid-second, but downgraded for the injury. TDN had him #5 in the position. In this year's class, he goes with the Mayfield, Cosmi, Eichenberg, Jenkins tier.

I agree Remmers is much better at RT. Niang would be the LT of necessity, but he has the mobility and athleticism for it. That's not optimism. That's making the best of a bad situation.

No one is saying we are good. We are saying there is no reason to panic.

[RedGold]

I’d probably but him at the top of the Leatherwood/Carman tier.   Still good,  but this is a deeper OT pool.   Not as top heavy,  but the 2nd tier has more guys in it this years.   It is a great year to need to retool the OL.  The biggest thing will be patching it so these guys don’t necessary have to stay right away.     
 

I think a lot could,  but I don’t really like counting on OL guys year 1.

[onejayhawk]

1 hour ago, samsel23 said:

I’d probably but him at the top of the Leatherwood/Carman tier.   Still good,  but this is a deeper OT pool.   Not as top heavy,  but the 2nd tier has more guys in it this years.   It is a great year to need to retool the OL.  The biggest thing will be patching it so these guys don’t necessary have to stay right away.     
 

I think a lot could,  but I don’t really like counting on OL guys year 1.

The pool last year was very good too, and more top heavy. Given his contact with the team, Niang should be equal to any but the big three, at least in terms of what he brings this year. There is a lot of rookie stuff that he does not need to learn, plus he's months ahead on training.

If you say we need to find someone in free agency, I'm with you. But, I don't think it's realistic on our budget. Remmers is a good journeyman, but he's a journeyman. I'm not seeing anyone better who we can afford. Just getting Remmers back is a bite.

Again, I'm not saying the situation is good, just that there is no reason to panic. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by onejayhawk