Julian Edelman vs Calvin Johnson

[pwny]

Just now, GSUeagles14 said:

Ok? So this says the Johnson was extremely competitive. What would happen if he was only an average wr in his career, would he be happy then?

Good question. Given there’s never been a player that’s won titles that’s talked about how he left the game because he felt unfulfilled by winning games but not putting up individual stats, and we’ve never seen someone say that they’d trade their titles for a gold jacket but yet have seen so many across every sport say they’d trade their individual accolades for a title, I think he’d be just fine. 

[Soko]

On 4/20/2021 at 2:03 PM, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

See, I don't think Edelman was an important starter. People will say "oh he won Superbowl MVP!" but so did James White, it means they had a good game but neither of those dudes were instrumental or important to the Patriots getting there or winning it. They're JAG's when all is said and done, which is why they're so easily replaceable in that system.

Absolute nonsense. More nonsensical than the “is Edelman a HOFer?” non-debate.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

8 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Absolute nonsense. More nonsensical than the “is Edelman a HOFer?” non-debate.

I'll concede 2019 but that's all you get.

[GSUeagles14]

25 minutes ago, lancerman said:

This is kinda minimizing it. Edelman wasn’t on a SB team. He was on 3. One he was one of 50 something players to get SB MVP and everyone remembers him as the clear standout in that game, another he made one of the greatest catches in NFL history that will replayed over and over again more than any catch Calvin Johnson ever had, and in the other he had the game winning TD. Then he’s also second to only Jerry Rice in some of the major playoff receiving stat all time lists. 
 

It’s a lot more in his case than just being any player who won a SB. 

And as others have mentioned, Calvin did pretty much burn out fron being stuck on a dud organization and retired early and the sentiment was kinda a sad one by comparison to Edelman’s recent retirement. 
 

Not that either answers wrong, but Edelman definitely has a unique place in history because of what he did in the playoffs and Calvin retired not being happy 

But winning sbs doesn’t make you a good player, there’s plenty of players who won multiple that nobody would consider good. Edelman was maybe an above average player that was largely replaceable in nes offense. Yes he had some great games in the playoffs but it doesn’t change the fact he was mainly just along for the ride.

A very small % of football fans could name the last 5 sb mvps even, it’s certainly a cool thing to say but it’s not really memorable to a giant part of the fan base. However, the vast majority of fans can rattle off all time positional greats. This isn’t controversial so I’m hoping we can agree to those two things. And the point is, who thinks about Deion branch anymore? Julian Edelman is mostly going to be forgotten in a decade, Calvin will be on a list of one of the greatest all time wrs for a while.

So again, unless people are arguing that any player with a sb trophy has a preferable career to a player without, we are going to continue to agree to disagree.

 

[GSUeagles14]

32 minutes ago, pwny said:

Good question. Given there’s never been a player that’s won titles that’s talked about how he left the game because he felt unfulfilled by winning games but not putting up individual stats, and we’ve never seen someone say that they’d trade their titles for a gold jacket but yet have seen so many across every sport say they’d trade their individual accolades for a title, I think he’d be just fine. 

So to be clear, you’re saying you’d prefer the career of any player with a title to one without. That’s essentially what you just said.

[Blackstar12]

8 people really vote for Edelman. 😂 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Blackstar12

[GSUeagles14]

39 minutes ago, pwny said:

Good question. Given there’s never been a player that’s won titles that’s talked about how he left the game because he felt unfulfilled by winning games but not putting up individual stats, and we’ve never seen someone say that they’d trade their titles for a gold jacket but yet have seen so many across every sport say they’d trade their individual accolades for a title, I think he’d be just fine. 

uh, and youre really misrepresenting the main reason Johnson retired, this was the first thing said when asked. 

 

Quote

"They're blowing up the team. My body is aching. I don't have my range of motion like I use to. I can't get out, I can't dig like I used to. I just don't feel it. I just don't have the love for it because I was just always hurting. I just don't have it."

 

So he was done physically. Now if the team was winning or he was on a legit title contender, he said maybe he would continue. But lets be very clear about why he retired.

[pwny]

9 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

So to be clear, you’re saying you’d prefer the career of any player with a title to one without. That’s essentially what you just said.

So to be clear, you’d prefer the career of a guy who had 101TDs and no titles to a guy that had 100 TDs and 4 titles. That’s essentially what you’re arguing.

Reductive arguments don’t really do anything.

 

To be a guy like Edelman who had a positive impact and can take pride in the fact that his efforts helped win three titles, I’d take that over feeling like I never accomplished the ultimate goal despite putting up gaudy numbers. 

[Soko]

26 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I'll concede 2019 but that's all you get.

Don’t really care what you concede. You made a ridiculous statement. Calling what Edelman did in 2015 and 2017 unimportant? It’s a joke of a statement. Hell, you could box score scout and see that that’s not true. In six games he was responsible for over 700 yards of offense and three scores (two of the three came in single score games). And that’s ignoring multiple big catches vs Seattle. The spectacular catch vs Atlanta. The TD throw vs Baltimore. 

You can choose whichever career you’d like. Calling Edelman unimportant to the championship runs isn’t a debate though, that’s flat out wrong.

[tyler735]

I'm so disappointed that I have to agree with GSUeagles on this. Do better footballsfuture. Edelman vs Megatron...Yikes. Are we going to get Troy Brown vs Randy Moss next?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said:

Don’t really care what you concede. You made a ridiculous statement. Calling what Edelman did in 2015 and 2017 unimportant? It’s a joke of a statement. Hell, you could box score scout and see that that’s not true. In six games he was responsible for over 700 yards of offense and three scores (two of the three came in single score games). And that’s ignoring multiple big catches vs Seattle. The spectacular catch vs Atlanta. The TD throw vs Baltimore. 

You can choose whichever career you’d like. Calling Edelman unimportant to the championship runs isn’t a debate though, that’s flat out wrong.

Edelman didn't play in 2017, so yeah I'd call that pretty unimportant. And in 2015 he had 692 yards, 55th in the league and his receptions put him at 47th in the league. He was barely the 2nd best pass catcher on the team in 2015 (Danny Amendola had identical stats). Again I would call that pretty unimportant.

The mere fact you could put stats of Welker, Amendola and Edelman up and not know which is which pretty much destroys any argument that Edelman as a player was anything special.

[Soko]

6 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Edelman didn't play in 2017, so yeah I'd call that pretty unimportant. And in 2015 he had 692 yards, 55th in the league and his receptions put him at 47th in the league. He was barely the 2nd best pass catcher on the team in 2015 (Danny Amendola had identical stats). Again I would call that pretty unimportant.

The mere fact you could put stats of Welker, Amendola and Edelman up and not know which is which pretty much destroys any argument that Edelman as a player was anything special.

2017 and 2015 postseason, guy. As in the SB run vs Atlanta and Seattle. Figured you’d gather that since you said “I’ll give you 2019”, which only could’ve referenced the SB run vs LAR.

So yeah, everything I said was accurate. Try again or ignore post with egg on face? Time will tell.

EDIT: @AFlaccoSeagulls Here is the super-easy-to-find page, if you’re still somehow shocked into disbelief. I know you get certain wide receivers of similar...physical description, confused but it says “Julian Edelman” right there on the top.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Yin-Yang

[GSUeagles14]

13 minutes ago, pwny said:

So to be clear, you’d prefer the career of a guy who had 101TDs and no titles to a guy that had 100 TDs and 4 titles. That’s essentially what you’re arguing.

Reductive arguments don’t really do anything.

 

To be a guy like Edelman who had a positive impact and can take pride in the fact that his efforts helped win three titles, I’d take that over feeling like I never accomplished the ultimate goal despite putting up gaudy numbers. 

no, thats not what im saying. Ive been pretty pretty clear that i think Johnson is an all time great and Edelman is maybe above average. I already laid all that out though.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, Yin-Yang said:

2017 and 2015 postseason, guy. As in the SB run vs Atlanta and Seattle. Figured you’d gather that since you said “I’ll give you 2019”, which only could’ve referenced the SB run vs LAR.

So yeah, everything I said was accurate. Try again or ignore post with egg on face? Time will tell.

The mere fact you're just straight up ignoring the regular season says a lot, my guy. You can't just ignore 16 whole games and try to tell me a receiver was some instrumental part of the team because he had a good 2-3 game stretch.

And like I said, Edelman is nothing different than the 3 other identical players the Patriots had in his role before/during his time, and I'm sure they'll find another quick slot WR now that he's gone, too.

[pwny]

1 minute ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

The mere fact you're just straight up ignoring the regular season says a lot, my guy. You can't just ignore 16 whole games and try to tell me a receiver was some instrumental part of the team because he had a good 2-3 game stretch.

And like I said, Edelman is nothing different than the 3 other identical players the Patriots had in his role before/during his time, and I'm sure they'll find another quick slot WR now that he's gone, too.

You’re wildly missing the point. What makes Edelman’s career fulfilling and something to be proud of isn’t his talent - which was mediocre for a starting receiver. It wasn’t his regular season play - which was mediocre for a starting player. What makes his career fulfilling and something that people would be happy to have is that he stepped up in the big games. He made big plays and can say he was a strong contributor in high leverage games that contributed to winning three titles. He and those around him worked in unison to climb the mountain three different times. 

Megatron was a far, far, far more talented player. And his individual accomplishments dwarf that of two Edelman’s combined. He’s a Hall of Famer and Edelman doesn’t even deserve to make a semi-finalist list. But contributing to three titles — to a whole lot of people — is worth more than being the best individual at your craft.