Bears draft Teven Jenkins, OT, Ok. St

[abstract_thought]

23 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Of course mid and late rounders work out sometimes, but what are the chances they work out? 10%? Call me crazy but I'd rather move up 9 spots in the 1st than stand pat & have my 4th round pick. 

Would you rather have the 11th pick or 20th pick? That's my point

But a 4th round pick isn’t the difference between 11 and 20. It’s a 1st, a 4th, and another 5th. You’re giving away multiple chances to land good players when you make that trade.

Sometimes you have to stay where you are and pick the right guy.

To be clear, I’m not trying to make a point about this specific pick. I’m concerned by the approach that doesn’t understand the value of quantity when it comes to the draft. I think it’s fine to make this type of trade for a QB. But to do this every season is not a way to build a deep team. It’s no surprise the Bears have cap issues and are cutting quality veterans with no plan to replace them.

[beardown3231]

2 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

But a 4th round pick isn’t the difference between 11 and 20. It’s a 1st, a 4th, and another 5th. You’re giving away multiple chances to land good players when you make that trade.

Sometimes you have to stay where you are and pick the right guy.

To be clear, I’m not trying to make a point about this specific pick. I’m concerned by the approach that doesn’t understand the value of quantity when it comes to the draft. I think it’s fine to make this type of trade for a QB. But to do this every season is not a way to build a deep team. It’s no surprise the Bears have cap issues and are cutting quality veterans with no plan to replace them.

The Bears have made the playoffs 2 out of the 3 last years, yet it seems incredibly weak. Decent players aren't helping this team get further. They're being held back at premier positions, specifically on offense. I've been as hard on Pace as anyone, but maybe he's realizing that a mediocre OT in round 7, a decent FS in round 4, and a solid SS in round 5 aren't moving the needle

[WindyCity]

Now that we have the QB we need to focus on building up the quantity of picks over the next few years.

Clean up the cap and stop paying real money to depth players.

I would love to see them pick 6-7 players today.

[Madmike90]

Just now, WindyCity said:

Now that we have the QB we need to focus on building up the quantity of picks over the next few years.

Clean up the cap and stop paying real money to depth players.

I would love to see them pick 6-7 players today.

For me it's not even about picking them...it'a about signing them after the draft...we have a lot of coaches with a lot of ties to the college game...use that as much as possible and convince these guys that there are real opportunities here. 

[WindyCity]

11 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

For me it's not even about picking them...it'a about signing them after the draft...we have a lot of coaches with a lot of ties to the college game...use that as much as possible and convince these guys that there are real opportunities here. 

If they can continue their streak of getting a real player in UDFA almost every year that would be very nice.

We won’t replace the quality of picks we traded (1st, 3rd, 4th) but we can replace the quantity of picks.

Can we flip Miller? Foles? 
Can we move down in 5 and add a pick next year?

Can we be in on the comp picks again next year?

[AZBearsFan]

13 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Now that we have the QB we need to focus on building up the quantity of picks over the next few years.

Clean up the cap and stop paying real money to depth players.

I would love to see them pick 6-7 players today.

I agree, but drafting a crap ton of guys on day 3 who we aren’t going to let get on the field to see if they’re viable players (like Vildor or either of the OL we took last year for instance) makes taking those picks relatively worthless. Day 3 starters right out of the gate like Mooney can’t be the expectation but it seems to be for a lot of people. If the plan is to develop day 3 guys with a quantity approach (which I am completely in favor of doing) then we have to actually see that through too. If we’re not going to do that then trading those picks to get better players at the top is actually a better use of the assets. 

[Madmike90]

9 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

I agree, but drafting a crap ton of guys on day 3 who we aren’t going to let get on the field to see if they’re viable players (like Vildor or either of the OL we took last year for instance) makes taking those picks relatively worthless. Day 3 starters right out of the gate like Mooney can’t be the expectation but it seems to be for a lot of people. If the plan is to develop day 3 guys with a quantity approach (which I am completely in favor of doing) then we have to actually see that through too. If we’re not going to do that then trading those picks to get better players at the top is actually a better use of the assets. 

I wouldn't say they are worthless...I just think we need to either go for highly athletic under developed guys or out and out role players...trying to find finished products or guys who can be true backups to much more talent players never seems to work.

[soulman]

11 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

Their approach since the end of the season certainly seems to suggest they liked what they saw from Kindle Vildor at the end of last season quite a bit while he was filling in for JJ. He wasn’t a crazy standout but he seemed to hold his own even as a rookie, and if the team is comfortable with him getting starter reps if Trufant can’t stay healthy then that at least explains what they have (and haven’t) done at the position this offseason. Our new DC was his position coach last year and I’m sure had a lot of input on what we need at the position after letting Fuller go. 

We actually have a ton of CBs signed already but none of the quality of Kyle Fuller.  As much as I hated to lose him he was in the final year of a deal averaging $14 mil per year and looking for an extension to begin at age 30 but at what price.  Apparently Pace asked him to cut his 2021 salary but Denver's offer must have been significantly more and he gets to play for Vic Fangio again which may get him an extended deal out here.  I believe Pace wanted to reset the CB positions at a lower cost which is also why he drafted Johnson last year.

In addition to Johnson and Trufant off the top of my head there's also Burns, Roberson, Joseph, Tabor, Vildor, and Shelley so we aren't lacking prospects to replace Fuller if Trufant isn't up to it.  If there's a CB or S worth drafting today fine and if not then double up at WR looking for one whose a good KR/PR and add more OL and an ILB.

[soulman]

15 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

If that's how it shakes out, fine.

Pace didn't trade up to #39 for a RT, though. 

I believe the idea is to play him at RT for now and see him as a backup to Leno at LT.  Whether he can eventually play LT full time remains to be seen.  He's got a similar attitude to Kyle Long and I'm looking forward to him knocking the snot out of some guys.

[soulman]

5 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

I don’t expect all the holes to be filled in one offseason. I’m just pointing out that there will be a lot of needs and not a lot of future picks or young prospects to step in. That’s what happens when you constantly trade away picks. It’s already happening this year at CB. This will happen again in ‘22.

While I have at least some of the same concerns Pace seems to have gotten quite good at finding and drafting the players he and his scouting team target.  He's had more misses in rounds one and two than rounds 3-5.  As long as his skill (or luck) holds as far as drafting those types who can come in, win a roster spot, and contribute wherever he finds them I won't criticize his approach.

[soulman]

4 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t think anyone would argue that more picks isn’t better (especially here on a draft message board) but sacrificing a few of those to get top tier talents like Fields and Jenkins is acceptable. It’s definitely not the approach we’d want to take every year though. That said, even after 2 trade ups this year we are still on schedule to have 6 picks in this draft. 

I'd say a lot of how it's approached depends upon how well Pace trusts Josh Lucas, his scouts, and himself.  There's nothing wrong with rifle shots vs a shotgun methodology provided the guys you've targeted make the team and produce.

Since they've done well with day three picks you hate to lose those because if nothing else some become very good second tier backups and ST guys.  But I would still defend his approach as long as it's getting him his targeted guys and they work out.

[soulman]

4 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Excellent video on OL technique and what Jenkins does well...also love the comparison at the start of the video 😂 

We got another nasty *** OL like Kyle Long back again and what's even more of a hoot is he has a bit of a "choir boy" look to him but man, this kid plays angry and rough and he wasn't very happy about getting passed over in round one.  This kid is gonna be motivated as all hell to start day one.

Without even caring a whole lot about today what impressed me about how Pace handled this draft is that he obviously had two guys earmarked for round one; Fields and Jenkins, and he got both.  Yeah, it cost him some draft booty to do it but if both become future All Pros it will have been well worth it.

Edited May 1, 2021 by soulman

[soulman]

3 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I have a good buddy that said Jenkins looks like Quentin Nelson's little brother - and he isn't happy about it. Lol

You know THAT is a very good comparison.  He's an OT version of Nelson who I would have loved to have gotten but we never even had the chance.  As good as this kid looks in his game vids I'm a little surprised he fell as far as he did.

[soulman]

2 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

But a 4th round pick isn’t the difference between 11 and 20. It’s a 1st, a 4th, and another 5th. You’re giving away multiple chances to land good players when you make that trade.

Sometimes you have to stay where you are and pick the right guy.

To be clear, I’m not trying to make a point about this specific pick. I’m concerned by the approach that doesn’t understand the value of quantity when it comes to the draft. I think it’s fine to make this type of trade for a QB. But to do this every season is not a way to build a deep team. It’s no surprise the Bears have cap issues and are cutting quality veterans with no plan to replace them.

What you're saying is a valid concern yet Pace has used nearly all of his trade ups effectively sans maybe Mitch and Anthony Miller and with Miller the skills are there just not the maturity and discipline.  The trade up for Montgomery has worked out and IIRC he traded up for Kwiatkoski as well and he was good enough to get a nice second contract from Las Vegas.

Losing those picks may hurt if he doesn't find ways to replace some of them but strictly from a draft value standpoint what we gave up is equivalent to a 2nd and two 5ths to get a kid we believe can become a franchise QB.  Compare that to what SF gave up for their guy who in many ways is very similar to Fields.  I can't fault Pace for that trade or for trading up for Jenkins.

But what I do wish he could find a way to do better is to get something of value for players he wants to move on from.  Belichick is a master at stock piling mid to late round picks from trades and compensatory picks to use as trade booty or simple add rookies looking for the few that will bust their hump and make his team.  Pace should do better at this game IMHO.

[soulman]

2 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

I wouldn't say they are worthless...I just think we need to either go for highly athletic under developed guys or out and out role players...trying to find finished products or guys who can be true backups to much more talent players never seems to work.

The only problem is very few of those late round picks and UDFA have a ceiling high enough to become starters and while some may become useful role players for a year or two (Wims for example) they seldom become more than marginal contributors.  We actually have a few too many of that type now and they only add to our mediocrity.

For every Charles Leno who goes from being a 7th round pick to become a decent LT a hundred other guys never even make it past camp or the PS.  One positive I can see is that having expanded the number of players on the PS we have a little more of an opportunity to work with some of the guys who do show raw NFL talent but need time and coaching to develop.

I don't like trading away too many picks either but when you do it and win that trade by getting your guy and he produces I will take that over trying to find a comparable player simply by luck by drafting quantity over quality.  I also agree with Windy (yeah, how 'bout that...LOL) that Pace needs to do batter at getting value back from player trades and compensatory picks.