Recapping the 2021 Draft (Post-Draft Talk)

[Dessie]

5 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

And I learn from my mistakes. Turns out Ferrell was indeed a huge reach. Also, why not post the Arnette thread where I said he was a clear reach? Mayock/Jon don't learn from their mistakes. They just keep reaching, reaching, and reaching over and over. They will not be here in three years. Mayock, Cable, Gruden, Carr will all be gone and we will be in another rebuilding process. Keep blindly believing otherwise. 

So you were wrong then, why is it so hard to believe you are wrong now? You and others seem to think your opinion is definitive when it’s shown not to be. Have a bit of humility and accept you might have your ranking of Leatherwood wrong like we all did. 

This draft has shown that all our rankings aren’t infallible, some choose to try to defend them, others accept it’s a guessing game for us armchair GMs. 

[Dessie]

1 hour ago, oakdb36 said:

It's not that teams were higher on Leatherwood than the media. We know the Raiders were, no idea about the others. It only takes 1 team to be overdrafted.

The media was higher on Moehrig (Jenkins/JOK) than the teams though. None of them felt he was incredible value until we did (roughly 20 spots later than where the media had him ranked). It takes multiple teams to drop.

The point is what the media says and what teams think isn't always the same.

This, we all rely on the media but it’s what the teams think that counts.

[Rich7sena]

5 minutes ago, Dessie said:

So you were wrong then, why is it so hard to believe you are wrong now? You and others seem to think your opinion is definitive when it’s shown not to be. Have a bit of humility and accept you might have your ranking of Leatherwood wrong like we all did. 

This draft has shown that all our rankings aren’t infallible, some choose to try to defend them, others accept it’s a guessing game for us armchair GMs. 

It's not a guessing game, though. If it were, then we would see quality starter/pro bowlers/allpro players evenly distributed in all rounds. And, while we're here, I was very right in that thread and continue to be. @Jerry, still think Gary is "turible?

Edited May 2, 2021 by Rich7sena

[Dessie]

11 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

It's not a guessing game, though. If it were, then we would see quality starter/pro bowlers/allpro players evenly distributed in all rounds. And, while we're here, I was very right in that thread and continue to be. @Jerry, still think Gary is "turible?

It’s a crapshoot everybody gets picks wrong it’s the nature of the draft, that’s the beauty of it. 

[Rich7sena]

1 minute ago, Dessie said:

It’s a crapshoot everybody gets picks wrong it’s the nature of the draft, that’s the beauty of it. 

But it's not a crapshoot. There are no guarantees. If it were a crapshoot then why even watch film ad do evaluations? 

[Dessie]

Just now, Rich7sena said:

But it's not a crapshoot. There are no guarantees. If it were a crapshoot then why even watch film ad do evaluations? 

It’s a crapshoot cos everybody is trying to predict how players are going to develop, injuries, how money can affect them etc, lot of factors come into play for young players. Film evaluation is to help but every pick comes with risk.

[Jeremy408]

2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Arnette was a clear Gruden pick. Fiesty in coverage and likes to tackle. Every Gruden pick in history of existence has busted. 
 

Leatherwood was a Cable pick so I agree there’s hope he can be a good RT. Although I’m still expecting Average RT, Below-Average RT, or Stud Guard. 
 

However, that doesn’t mean Leatherwood wasn’t over-drafted according to a value perspective. And before you list “according to who?” there has only been four major consensus reaches since 2019: Clelin Ferrell, Tytus Howard, Damon Arnette, and Alex Leatherwood. So the Raiders are just smarter than everyone else and the consensus is wrong? The consensus sure hasn’t been wrong on Ferrell and Arnette so far. 

Every Gruden and draft pick has busted? Josh Jacobs was a bust? Hunter Renfrow was a bust? Foster Moreau was a bust? I didn’t even know it was long enough to call Henry rugs or Brian Edwards busts. 

Every off-season acquisition up until this off-season that has been on defense we’re obviously ball Gunther scheme fits obviously:

Clelin Ferrell/max Crosby/Carl Nassib(Big defensive ends like Carlos Dunlap, Everson Griffin, Michael Johnson)

Jonathan Abram(supposed to be a do it all safety that’s interchangeable like George iloka, Harrison smith, Shawn Williams)

Lamarcus Joyner(veterans slot corner that hits hard and plays like a safety like Adam Pac-Man Jones)

Damon Arnette(Press corner specialist that isn’t particularly fast but went to a big school where he’s played a lot of high-level competition like Dre Kirkpatrick)

Maurice hurst/PJ Hall(smaller penetrating defensive tackle like Geno Atkins)

The reason why I mention this is because I mentioned that you can tell the strategy is that whenever they have a need they only draft players that best fit the scheme of whatever the coach runs. The coaches essentially handpick the players. 
 

Think about it: why don’t you think we’ve had one speed rusher since we’ve been here and then all of a sudden does Bradley gets here and then we sign Yannick Ngakoue who is a speed rusher and draft Malcolm Koonce Who is basically a carbon copy of him. Because Gus Bradley hand picked The style he wanted and Mayock went out and got him. If Gus Bradley was here when we were picking fourth overall do you think we would’ve picked Clelin Ferrell. Of course not. We would’ve picked Brian Burns or Josh Allen because they would’ve been better fits as LEOs. 

With Paul Gunther as defensive coordinator, When are we drafting a safety to specifically use him as a single high? 

With Paul Gunther as defensive coordinator, When was the last time that we drafted a safety to switch to linebacker?r(don’t say  tanner muse because 1.At Clemson him and Isaiah Simmons both played this position that were neither safety nor linebacker 2. He was drafted to play special teams mainly not because of his play as a skill position player which probably meant that he was handpicked by the special-teams coordinator LOL)

These things indicate that Gus Bradley had a significant impact on who we drafted defensively just like Paul Gunther had a big emphasis on who we drafted before him

But that doesn’t change the fact that you never answered according to who the players you mentioned are reaches.

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Jeremy408

[Jeremy408]

5 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

But it's not a crapshoot. There are no guarantees. If it were a crapshoot then why even watch film ad do evaluations? 

That’s exactly what it is. What’s your doing when you’re drafting someone is that you’re making an educated guess of how they’re going to turn out. 

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

You won't appreciate what he said about Koonce in response to Ted Nguyen talking about him:

After I posted a video of Koonce a couple weeks ago I had six different teams text and half-jokingly ask me to stop posting because they loved Koonce. He was a top 100 player for most teams.

You have this tweet?

[Rich7sena]

26 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

That’s exactly what it is. What’s your doing when you’re drafting someone is that you’re making an educated guess of how they’re going to turn out. 

What you're describing is not a crapshoot.

[Jeremy408]

9 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

What you're describing is not a crapshoot.

Dictionary definition of the word crapshoot: A risky or uncertain matter.

Is drafting players risky. Yes

Are you uncertain of how the draft pick is going to turn out in a few years. Yes

Edited May 2, 2021 by Jeremy408

[Turnobili]

im glad i hadnt gotten around to making my 2nd account during the 2019 draft lol. would have blown a gasket if i was around.

had plenty of anger to share during the 2020 draft though

[Turnobili]

1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

You won't appreciate what he said about Koonce in response to Ted Nguyen talking about him:

After I posted a video of Koonce a couple weeks ago I had six different teams text and half-jokingly ask me to stop posting because they loved Koonce. He was a top 100 player for most teams.

further proving he's just doing PR for mayock

[Rich7sena]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

Dictionary definition of the word crapshoot: A risky or uncertain matter.

Is drafting players risky. Yes

Are you uncertain of how the draft pick is going to turn out in a few years. Yes

Crapshoot is based on the game craps, which is definitely random. The draft is not random.

[Jeremy408]

1 minute ago, Rich7sena said:

Crapshoot is based on the game craps, which is definitely random. The draft is not random.

I was referring to the dictionary definition of the word not the game it’s based on

Edited May 2, 2021 by Jeremy408