Recapping the 2021 Draft (Post-Draft Talk)

[Jeremy408]

2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

@BackinBlack Seriously though, that logic makes no sense. That means just because a team takes someone in the 1st Round, they are a 1st Round Talent, and if they go in the 2nd Round, they are a 2nd Round Talent.

No, it doesn’t work that way. Tytus Howard was a 3rd Round Talent and 31 other teams laughed their butt off at the Texans. And Arnette and Leatherwood were Mid 2nd Round Talents at best. 

Says who though? 

[BayRaider]

2 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

I guess my thought / thinking is that the media maybe wasn’t as informed this year because of covid restrictions. 
a lot of the media ‘first round talent ‘ fell out of the first. 
I think that’s because nfl GMs boards were different from the media’s. 

it was a reach by the media. 
trevon Moehrig would not have been a reach by the media. 

but two teams took safeties before we did, so could argue Moehrig was seen as the 3rd best safety.

just like way back in the day, media thought Bruce Campbell was going in the 1st, he wouldn’t have been seen as a reach in the 2nd, and we got him in the 4th IIRc. 

sometimes the media’s rankings don’t align.

This is the same excuse everyone gave Ferrell and Arnette. “Maybe it wasn’t a reach... because you know... maybe the teams were higher on them than the media”

Just so happened to be the Raiders all three times...?

They were clear reaches. 
 

Ferrell and Arnette sure have worked out great. Ferrell might not be on this team in a couple years. At least Arnette has Nickel Corner to fall back on and Leatherwood has Guard to fall back on, neither are gonna be flat out busts. Although still way way over drafted. 
 

The justification period for Raider fans happens every single post-draft. Like history repeating itself. 

[Jeremy408]

5 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

This is the same excuse everyone gave Ferrell and Arnette. “Maybe it wasn’t a reach... because you know... maybe the teams were higher on them than the media”

Just so happened to be the Raiders all three times...?

They were clear reaches. 
 

Ferrell and Arnette sure have worked out great. Ferrell might not be on this team in a couple years. At least Arnette has Nickel Corner to fall back on and Leatherwood has Guard to fall back on, neither are gonna be flat out busts. Although still way way over drafted. 
 

The justification period for Raider fans happens every single post-draft. Like history repeating itself. 

I said this earlier in another post but I blame the bad picks on Paul Gunther. Notice all the pics that are usually complained about are the defense of players like Farrell Abrams and Arnett. We never complain about Josh Jacobs or Kolton Miller (who just got paid). Let’s because the players are drafted for the coaches who tell the GM who they want and are responsible for cultivating them. Gunther did not do that. The reason why I don’t have a problem with this pic is because the pic has nothing really to do with Leatherwood it has more to do with time Cables ability to coach up the players that he handpicks. Same with Gruden with ruggs. When cable is wrong about an offensive lineman that he picks in the first round then I’ll be upset. But I’m not gonna be upset because the Internet TV consensus said I should be.

[RaidersAreOne]

Jim Nagy:

Some context on @Raiders decision to take Alex Leatherwood with No. 17 pick. Media crushed them but Leatherwood was going in first round. Spoke to multiple teams picking in 20-32 range that had Leatherwood in Round 1. Most don’t agree with the pick but it wasn’t a reach.

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

I said this earlier in another post but I blame the bad picks on Paul Gunther. Notice all the pics that are usually complained about are the defense of players like Farrell Abrams and Arnett. We never complain about Josh Jacobs or Kolton Miller (who just got paid). Let’s because the players are drafted for the coaches who tell the GM who they want and are responsible for cultivating them. Gunther did not do that. The reason why I don’t have a problem with this pic is because the pic has nothing really to do with Leatherwood it has more to do with time Cables ability to coach up the players that he handpicks. Same with Gruden with ruggs. When cable is wrong about an offensive lineman that he picks in the first round then I’ll be upset. But I’m not gonna be upset because the Internet TV consensus said I should be.

Arnette was a clear Gruden pick. Fiesty in coverage and likes to tackle. Every Gruden pick in history of existence has busted. 
 

Leatherwood was a Cable pick so I agree there’s hope he can be a good RT. Although I’m still expecting Average RT, Below-Average RT, or Stud Guard. 
 

However, that doesn’t mean Leatherwood wasn’t over-drafted according to a value perspective. And before you list “according to who?” there has only been four major consensus reaches since 2019: Clelin Ferrell, Tytus Howard, Damon Arnette, and Alex Leatherwood. So the Raiders are just smarter than everyone else and the consensus is wrong? The consensus sure hasn’t been wrong on Ferrell and Arnette so far. 

[BayRaider]

Just now, RaidersAreOne said:

Jim Nagy:

Some context on @Raiders decision to take Alex Leatherwood with No. 17 pick. Media crushed them but Leatherwood was going in first round. Spoke to multiple teams picking in 20-32 range that had Leatherwood in Round 1. Most don’t agree with the pick but it wasn’t a reach.

Don’t believe it for a second. Nagy good friends with Mayock, just helping play clean up. 

[oakdb36]

It's not that teams were higher on Leatherwood than the media. We know the Raiders were, no idea about the others. It only takes 1 team to be overdrafted.

The media was higher on Moehrig (Jenkins/JOK) than the teams though. None of them felt he was incredible value until we did (roughly 20 spots later than where the media had him ranked). It takes multiple teams to drop.

The point is what the media says and what teams think isn't always the same.

[Dessie]

32 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

This is the same excuse everyone gave Ferrell and Arnette. “Maybe it wasn’t a reach... because you know... maybe the teams were higher on them than the media”

Just so happened to be the Raiders all three times...?

They were clear reaches. 
 

Ferrell and Arnette sure have worked out great. Ferrell might not be on this team in a couple years. At least Arnette has Nickel Corner to fall back on and Leatherwood has Guard to fall back on, neither are gonna be flat out busts. Although still way way over drafted. 
 

The justification period for Raider fans happens every single post-draft. Like history repeating itself. 

This is hilarious, you were the main person arguing Ferrell wasn’t a reach. 
 

 

[Dessie]

On 4/26/2019 at 2:14 AM, BayRaider said:

Most hate it, I love it. My #2 EDGE. As complete as a DE can be. Excellent run defender, double digit sack guy at the next level, and relentless motor.

Also, one thing you guys should know, he is the best character of the entire draft. A+ character, great personality. 

 

[RaidersAreOne]

26 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Don’t believe it for a second. Nagy good friends with Mayock, just helping play clean up. 

You won't appreciate what he said about Koonce in response to Ted Nguyen talking about him:

After I posted a video of Koonce a couple weeks ago I had six different teams text and half-jokingly ask me to stop posting because they loved Koonce. He was a top 100 player for most teams.

[oakdb36]

16 minutes ago, Dessie said:

This is hilarious, you were the main person arguing Ferrell wasn’t a reach. 
 

 

This thread is eye-opening.

[BayRaider]

30 minutes ago, Dessie said:

This is hilarious, you were the main person arguing Ferrell wasn’t a reach. 
 

 

And I learn from my mistakes. Turns out Ferrell was indeed a huge reach. Also, why not post the Arnette thread where I said he was a clear reach? Mayock/Jon don't learn from their mistakes. They just keep reaching, reaching, and reaching over and over. They will not be here in three years. Mayock, Cable, Gruden, Carr will all be gone and we will be in another rebuilding process. Keep blindly believing otherwise. 

[NickButera]

1 hour ago, BayRaider said:

This is the same excuse everyone gave Ferrell and Arnette. “Maybe it wasn’t a reach... because you know... maybe the teams were higher on them than the media”

Just so happened to be the Raiders all three times...?

They were clear reaches. 
 

Ferrell and Arnette sure have worked out great. Ferrell might not be on this team in a couple years. At least Arnette has Nickel Corner to fall back on and Leatherwood has Guard to fall back on, neither are gonna be flat out busts. Although still way way over drafted. 
 

The justification period for Raider fans happens every single post-draft. Like history repeating itself. 

But it's not the raiders every time. We can't act like it's unique to us. Overdrafted, reached, value.... In the end half or more first rounders don't last very long anyway, and are backups or worse after a few years in the league. (There's been plenty of studies done, it's about 50%) The way I look at it is if any first rounder we pick becomes a competent starter we've gotten value for him regardless. Granted he may or may not live up to our hope, but that can be said of more than 50% of first rounders. 

[Dessie]

18 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

This thread is eye-opening.

Aw man very eye opening not just @BayRaider who is changing their stance on Ferrell tbf. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Dessie

[Rich7sena]

24 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

This thread is eye-opening.

Some loud wrong takes in there from posters who continue to be loud wrong.