2022 NFL Draft Thread

[BobbyPhil1781]

8 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

So NFL coaches prefer a Kirk Cousins/Derek Carr over a Kyler Murray/Russell Wilson type? 

Russ has 39 rushes this year. He's also a passer first. Not many can deny that. Also you're being pretty disingenuous listing Carr and Cousins as non-RPO types lol. It's quite sad actually. Maybe you should list Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, Burrow, Dak, among many others but that wouldn't nail home the point you want to be true. I hope for their sake that no one agrees with what you posted. And yes, I'll take all of those guys over Kyler and Lamar 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Russ has 39 rushes this year. He's also a passer first. Not many can deny that. Also you're being pretty disingenuous listing Carr and Cousins as non-RPO types lol. It's quite sad actually. Maybe you should list Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, Burrow, Dak, among many others but that wouldn't nail home the point you want to be true. I hope for their sake that no one agrees with what you posted. And yes, I'll take all of those guys over Kyler and Lamar 

I swear this is gone over every couple of years when someone comes in with a lot of mobility. 

Mariota?

Kaepernick?

RG3?

Vince Young? 

Cam Newton? 

Hell, throw Taysom Hill in there too. 

They get flashy for a season or two, fanboys drool over the fantasy points and playability in Madden tournaments, and within a couple of years they get figured out and fall off the map- if they made it in the first place. 

Everyone keeps looking for the new Vick type to redefine the QB position, and it's hilarious.  

Murray had a hot start, but he fizzled out as the season wore on, his play style caught up, and the turnovers mounted. 

Lamar Jackson has been almost as bad as some of the rookies.  

Both play in offenses sooooo particularly tailored to them that they genuinely may not have anywhere near the trade value one may expect.

Jackson would absolutely flop outside of Baltimore if asked to run a traditional offense. He barely pulls it off there in the first place. There's no longevity there. Once the scheme is figured out, and it will be, he's toast. Baltimore should enjoy the ride while it lasts. 

Murray may have some success elsewhere, but not much. Another case of enjoying lightning in a bottle before it crashes down. 

Remember when RG3 was supposed to change the NFL? In a mobile QB-friendly system designed by the Shanahan? How his mobility would make up for his shortcomings as a passer?

I sure do. I also remember when that "other" QB Washington drafted in the 4th that is mobile-ish, but more of a traditional QB took the reigns away from the guy people wanted to trade the house for, and made him last week's news that got shipped out to the QB graveyard in Cleveland. 

Why did nobody ever sign Kaepernick? Yes, his personal stances likely made some owners, GMs, or coaches flinch a bit. But let's be real, we've seen worse. If Kaepernick were a top 5-10 QB, someone would have brought him in. The problem is that he couldn't play QB B effectively outside of a system designed almost exclusively for him. It wasn't worth the investment. Harbaugh/Roman and then Kelly created a system that masked his flaws- much like Roman has done for Jackson. 

Some day, people will finally get the picture that QB is not just a RB who can toss the rock a bit. Nobody in their right mind is taking Murray or Jackson over a Carr or Cousins in a trade, because then they'd have to then set out and replicate a gimmick offense and hope it works a second time. 

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

6 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Look at the footwork at 8:54. Wow London is moving up for me. I might have him ahead of everyone but Wilson/Burks/Jameson now. He's worth it in the 20s if the medicals check out. Absolute alpha and underrated speed/quicks for his HUGE stature.

Amazing receiver. The negative I saw imo is he looks like an injury waiting to happen because of his aggressiveness. He does look special though.

[jpaulthe1st]

1 hour ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Russ has 39 rushes this year. He's also a passer first. Not many can deny that. Also you're being pretty disingenuous listing Carr and Cousins as non-RPO types lol. It's quite sad actually. Maybe you should list Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, Burrow, Dak, among many others but that wouldn't nail home the point you want to be true. I hope for their sake that no one agrees with what you posted. And yes, I'll take all of those guys over Kyler and Lamar 

So let’s take Wilson’s age 33 season where he missed multiple games and cherry pick stats from it to put up a false narrative. He was always a dual-threat QB who could pass the ball but was more effective as a passer outside of the pocket than inside. 
 

I listed Carr and Cousins because those are the first QB’s that come to mind when I think of people that run or scramble as an absolute last resort. 

 

 

[Chali21]

26 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I swear this is gone over every couple of years when someone comes in with a lot of mobility. 

Mariota?

Kaepernick?

RG3?

Vince Young? 

Cam Newton? 

Hell, throw Taysom Hill in there too. 

They get flashy for a season or two, fanboys drool over the fantasy points and playability in Madden tournaments, and within a couple of years they get figured out and fall off the map- if they made it in the first place. 

Everyone keeps looking for the new Vick type to redefine the QB position, and it's hilarious.  

Murray had a hot start, but he fizzled out as the season wore on, his play style caught up, and the turnovers mounted. 

Lamar Jackson has been almost as bad as some of the rookies.  

Both play in offenses sooooo particularly tailored to them that they genuinely may not have anywhere near the trade value one may expect.

Jackson would absolutely flop outside of Baltimore if asked to run a traditional offense. He barely pulls it off there in the first place. There's no longevity there. Once the scheme is figured out, and it will be, he's toast. Baltimore should enjoy the ride while it lasts. 

Murray may have some success elsewhere, but not much. Another case of enjoying lightning in a bottle before it crashes down. 

Remember when RG3 was supposed to change the NFL? In a mobile QB-friendly system designed by the Shanahan? How his mobility would make up for his shortcomings as a passer?

I sure do. I also remember when that "other" QB Washington drafted in the 4th that is mobile-ish, but more of a traditional QB took the reigns away from the guy people wanted to trade the house for, and made him last week's news that got shipped out to the QB graveyard in Cleveland. 

Why did nobody ever sign Kaepernick? Yes, his personal stances likely made some owners, GMs, or coaches flinch a bit. But let's be real, we've seen worse. If Kaepernick were a top 5-10 QB, someone would have brought him in. The problem is that he couldn't play QB B effectively outside of a system designed almost exclusively for him. It wasn't worth the investment. Harbaugh/Roman and then Kelly created a system that masked his flaws- much like Roman has done for Jackson. 

Some day, people will finally get the picture that QB is not just a RB who can toss the rock a bit. Nobody in their right mind is taking Murray or Jackson over a Carr or Cousins in a trade, because then they'd have to then set out and replicate a gimmick offense and hope it works a second time. 

I think Mahomes is the gold standard for this. He’s very mobile but he can also beat you with his arm. Drafting a guy who isn’t a natural passer in the first is pretty foolish unless you can put them on the bench. Once again Mahomes is the poster boy for this. The biggest problem is when you draft a QB in the first there’s a lot of pressure from fans and media to start time prematurely. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

9 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

So let’s take Wilson’s age 33 season where he missed multiple games and cherry pick stats from it to put up a false narrative. He was always a dual-threat QB who could pass the ball but was more effective as a passer outside of the pocket than inside. 
 

I listed Carr and Cousins because those are the first QB’s that come to mind when I think of people that run or scramble as an absolute last resort. 

Russ has eclipsed 100 rushes two times his entire career. Lamar is more than that and Kyler will be as well unless they determine him being hurt from rushing so much this season is a good reason to keep him in the backfield. What a novel concept.

Another disingenuous remark as well. You know damn well why you listed Carr and Cousins and not Rodgers who is literally what everyone thinks of as a guy who scrambles as a last resort lol. You're not fooling anyone. You didn't want to list anyone great bc you're trying to nail home a point, poorly, and listing solid passing QBs who run as a last resort doesn't let you do that. 

Also, let's make sure we're on the same page. You initially listed QBs that could run an RPO (per Bitty's post you quoted) and now it's "passing outside the pocket". Those aren't even close to being the same thing. Keep the goalposts in one spot if you're really trying to have a genuine discussion. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by BobbyPhil1781

[ronjon1990]

13 minutes ago, Chali21 said:

I think Mahomes is the gold standard for this. He’s very mobile but he can also beat you with his arm. Drafting a guy who isn’t a natural passer in the first is pretty foolish unless you can put them on the bench. Once again Mahomes is the poster boy for this. The biggest problem is when you draft a QB in the first there’s a lot of pressure from fans and media to start time prematurely. 

Yup. 

I mean, look at it this way-

Aaron Rodgers (particularly younger Rodgers) was very mobile. He sat and refined his game (crazy there was a time he had A LOT of doubters). Voila, he's near GOAT level. 

Alex Smith was, in his youth, deceptively mobile (that bootleg against New Orleans was the stuff of beauty too). But he got thrown to the wolves and it took Harbaugh and Reid for Smith to become respected as a passer (something I always hate for him because I think Smith had a lot of wasted potential). 

People jump on first round QBs who can move, and as you point out, they start them immediately. They rely on their athletic ability and rarely progress as passers. 

Zach Wilson got by beating lesser talent at BYU playing a lot of YOLO ball. That won't fly in the NFL. But what does he do? Ask Saleh to sit him for a year or two? 

Unfortunately, more people take the Smith route than the Rodgers route. Smith didn't have the arm Rodgers does, but he was more athletic. Had SF done the smart thing back in the day, I don't think Smith would be up there in the Rodgers category, but I do believe he would've spent the majority of his career as a consistent top 8-10 QB in the league, probably somewhere in the same general tier as Matt Ryan. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by ronjon1990

[Bitty 2.0]

2 hours ago, jpaulthe1st said:

So NFL coaches prefer a Kirk Cousins/Derek Carr over a Kyler Murray/Russell Wilson type? 

 

 

Russell Wilson is not a running quarterback. He moves around trying to throw the ball. Murray probably won't last 5 years. once a running QB speed is gone it's over for him.

[ronjon1990]

3 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

Russell Wilson is not a running quarterback. He moves around trying to throw the ball. Murray probably won't last 5 years. once a running QB speed is gone it's over for him.

People fawn over Wilson too much, too. 

He's been good, even great at times. But he also runs around in the backfield and takes a lot of unnecessary sacks that put the offense in bad spots. 

Without the run game Seattle had and the D they have had for most of his career, I don't know that he's as heralded as he is. People overlook that a lot with Wilson, it seems. Winning cures all, I guess? 

As for Murray, yeah I give him a few more years. Size, ball security, and scheme are all slowly working against him. Those problems are probably going to get worse as time goes on. 

[jimkelly02]

On 1/3/2022 at 10:56 AM, NYRaider said:

His pass rushing grade has been a 91, his run defense grade has been an 86, but his overall grade is an 84. What's dragging it down? His coverage grade.

I don’t understand PFF ratings. It’s not as simple as averaging the numbers they use a “weighted average” (I think that’s what it’s called, it’s been Too many years since math class) to come up with the overall grade.

Nonetheless, Parsons has never been great in coverage.  And that’s fine….. you want to rush him not drop him Into coverage.  He’s athletic enough to make the occasional play in coverage and get good depth in his drops but overall it’s not a strong suit for him.

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

I’ve never claimed to be a talent evaluator. I like using the eye test. With that said, I just finished watching the FCS Championship game and Montana State LB Troy Anderson jumped off the screen at me. 6’4” 235 lbs and can run. Late rounder imo. Check him out and let me know what you think.

Edited January 8, 2022 by SBXISBXVSBXVIII

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

I’ve never claimed to be a talent evaluator. I like using the eye test. With that said, I just finished watching the FCS Championship game and Montana State LB Troy Anderson jumped off the screen at me. 6’4” 235 lbs and can run. Late rounder imo. Check him out and let me know what you think.

If you look at the success of late round LB over the last couple of years, it's pretty much only guys who test very well. Look at how good Cole Holcomb is for example. He had great #'s coming out. If this guy tests well, we should definitely be interested.

[NCOUGHMAN]

17 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Most people thought Jefferson was purely a slot WR coming out of LSU.

Yea I got roasted trying to prove people here that he wasn’t 

[MrOaktown_56]

9 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Yea I got roasted trying to prove people here that he wasn’t 

I missed on Jefferson. I didn't know he had the route savvy he had. He was so limited in his usage at LSU. They actually didn't use his full skillset. I knew his first game in the NFL that he was a stud.

[MrOaktown_56]

Also Justyn Ross is being criminally underrated. He's a 2nd rounder at worst IMHO.