LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Rod Johnson said: I look forward to our youthful roster taking that next step to 2-14 #progress #trusttheprocess #defendsashi I'm sure canning everyone and starting over is the answer. It's worked so well every other time we've tried it. At least this time we gave the coach two whole seasons after completely tearing down the roster. #tooimpatienttoeventypethiswholehast.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgdish Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 8 hours ago, Mind Character said: Sometimes I feel like we don't really look at what our roster really is and its composition and how that translates to wins/losses. 6 out of 11 players on Offense are in their first or second year (with Joe Thomas' injury, 7/11 players are 1st or 2nd year) 7 out of 11 players on defense are in their first or second year If we include special teams; 1 of our starters is a rookie; the other a veteran so that makes 14/24 starting players are 1st/2nd year players. MORE IMPORTANTLY, this inexperience is at critical positions for offensive power/scoring (QB, WR....) and defense positions that are important for stopping the opposing teams' QB (MLB, Both Safety's,and pass rushers) This is not a recipe for winning especially if not all those inexperienced starters are blue chip 1st or 2nd rounders...Many are late rounders But that's not all....When it comes to factoring in our 2 deep or rotational players, due to the complete roster tear down almost all of them are rookies or 2nd year players. Literally at every position except for RB the 2-deep player is a rookie/2nd year player or even a undrafted free agent! This is what the coaches are working with week in and week out. Not only trying to get these guys to be professionals, but to accelerate their acclimation to the pro games and what it takes to win. The veteran presence on the team is on the offensive line, but as we know well a talented offensive line only can do so much. The truth is on every team, every Sunday...coaches make bad calls (time management, down and distance management issues) but it's only really known by that teams' fan base or hardcore fans that follow multiple teams. Every week coaching decisions are the talk of sports radio. Some of the best coaches often make really bad decisions repeatedly and are known for their in game flubs (Andy Reid, Bruce Arians, Jason Garrett, Jay Gruden, Mike Zimmer, and so on and so on); however, player experience and savvy is able to mask such issues by ending in a winning result. Due to global roster inexperience nothing is masked (players going out for a late night drink, bad coaching fourth down calls, bad defensive calls,etc)...everything is out in the open when a team is in a spiral of losing. Such is our experience, but I just wish our fanbase would go into the season with a clear eyed view of what we're really working with. It's as if most people thought we were going to win this year. Like when it came to the Colts, Bengals, Texans, Jets games...everyone was so disappointed when we lost even though each of those teams is more experienced AND has bonafide pro bowl top tier players somewhere on their roster giving them a decisive advantage all of which we do not have. The predicament our team is in was predictable. This is entirely true, and why I predicted we'd be 4-11. I can't believe the front office was allowed to field such a horrific team. Even by keeping some experienced guys like Haden and Demario Davis on the field, we could have put our coaches and players in a better position to learn and win. $100 says either Hue or Sashi or both becomes a scapegoat by truckstop Jimmy and is fired after this season - even though he should have known most of all we were fielding a team of hot garbage this year. Fans are impatient, and we'll probably sell $0 worth of season tickets for next year if it doesn't look like we're doing something. I can't believe we're in regime 2 of the worst ownership in the league...what have we done to deserve Lerner and Haslam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 18 minutes ago, dawgdish said: This is entirely true, and why I predicted we'd be 4-11. Are we just refusing to play a 16th game here? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastercheddaar Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 I'm going to put blame on Sashi. If he seriously thought this team could compete then he needs help. We went into camp with 2 second year QBs, a super young rookie QB who all the other teams passed on and Brock. We then cut any veteran WRs and went with a few second year wideouts and Britt. We then thought that Crow could be a powerback when the other defenses stack the box (because of the above statement.) Only thing Sashi did correctly for the offense and Hue was stack up the o-line. So Sashi in essence gave Hue a true rookie QB in Kizer and then didn't give Kizer any skilled position players to succeed. Rookie QBs who cannot fit perfectly in the system or have such an abundance of talent need a strong O-line, a good RB, and a veteran WR core that can run routes and catch what is thrown to them. Now that Joe Thomas is out, Kizer/Kessler/Hogan/Clipboard Jesus have none of the 3 needed to succeed. It is like Sashi gave up this season for a better draft. That is all mastercheddaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbite Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Moral of the story is that we should trade for or sign veterans at each position group in the off season all while still adding younger more talented players to the roster via the draft. Vet WR, RB, OL, DL, LB and DB or 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 29 minutes ago, Mastercheddaar said: I'm going to put blame on Sashi. If he seriously thought this team could compete then he needs help. We went into camp with 2 second year QBs, a super young rookie QB who all the other teams passed on and Brock. We then cut any veteran WRs and went with a few second year wideouts and Britt. We then thought that Crow could be a powerback when the other defenses stack the box (because of the above statement.) Only thing Sashi did correctly for the offense and Hue was stack up the o-line. So Sashi in essence gave Hue a true rookie QB in Kizer and then didn't give Kizer any skilled position players to succeed. Rookie QBs who cannot fit perfectly in the system or have such an abundance of talent need a strong O-line, a good RB, and a veteran WR core that can run routes and catch what is thrown to them. Now that Joe Thomas is out, Kizer/Kessler/Hogan/Clipboard Jesus have none of the 3 needed to succeed. It is like Sashi gave up this season for a better draft. That is all mastercheddaar The thing most overlooked about the OL is that replacing what you once had with lesser players is not progress.... Alex mack, Mitchell Schwartz were replaced with Kevin Zeitler, JC Tretter, and Shon Coleman...that was not an improvement and not some geniusmove So, while everyone was celebrating those signings like it would change things...I thought to myself at best it was a lateral move.... But if we didn't win with Mack and co we would have to upgrade roster spots outside of OL to give us real progress and a chance at winning.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastercheddaar Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 23 minutes ago, Mind Character said: The thing most overlooked about the OL is that replacing what you once had with lesser players is not progress.... Alex mack, Mitchell Schwartz were replaced with Kevin Zeitler, JC Tretter, and Shon Coleman...that was not an improvement and not some geniusmove So, while everyone was celebrating those signings like it would change things...I thought to myself at best it was a lateral move.... But if we didn't win with Mack and co we would have to upgrade roster spots outside of OL to give us real progress and a chance at winning.. You are correct about the O-line. Mack and Schwartz > Tretter and coleman. However signing them was better than what we did have. What is nauseating like what you said, if we didn't upgrade from Mack and Schwartz it would give us cap space for other skilled positions. Sashi didn't bother to upgrade or keep the status quo on any other position. Except TE, we got Njoku. He better have plans for this off season. He has the cap space and the draft pick ammo to make a huge splash on this team. That is all mastercheddaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I'm sure canning everyone and starting over is the answer. It's worked so well every other time we've tried it. At least this time we gave the coach two whole seasons after completely tearing down the roster. #tooimpatienttoeventypethiswholehast.. I don't care if we can everybody because Haslem will just put another doomed to fail regime in. The Browns are a beautiful meme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 11 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: I don't care if we can everybody because Haslem will just put another doomed to fail regime in. The Browns are a beautiful meme. Soooo......why fire them just to hire someone else who's doomed to fail? Why pay 2-3 coaches at a time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 28 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Soooo......why fire them just to hire someone else who's doomed to fail? Why pay 2-3 coaches at a time? Where did I say fire them? I'm looking forward to our leap from historically the worst to very terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: Where did I say fire them? I'm looking forward to our leap from historically the worst to very terrible. k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgdish Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Mastercheddaar said: I'm going to put blame on Sashi. If he seriously thought this team could compete then he needs help. We went into camp with 2 second year QBs, a super young rookie QB who all the other teams passed on and Brock. We then cut any veteran WRs and went with a few second year wideouts and Britt. We then thought that Crow could be a powerback when the other defenses stack the box (because of the above statement.) Only thing Sashi did correctly for the offense and Hue was stack up the o-line. So Sashi in essence gave Hue a true rookie QB in Kizer and then didn't give Kizer any skilled position players to succeed. Rookie QBs who cannot fit perfectly in the system or have such an abundance of talent need a strong O-line, a good RB, and a veteran WR core that can run routes and catch what is thrown to them. Now that Joe Thomas is out, Kizer/Kessler/Hogan/Clipboard Jesus have none of the 3 needed to succeed. It is like Sashi gave up this season for a better draft. That is all mastercheddaar Let's also not forget Sashi's brilliance in trading Demario Davis (who is now having a great season) for a safety who didn't even make the team cutting Haden (who is having a good season) from a thin secondary, because who would want some veteran stability and leadership in the locker room when you can save Truckstop Jimmy a few hundred thousand off of the millions you are paying Osweiler (gee, another veteran in a QB room that could desperately use them) to be the backup in Denver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, dawgdish said: Let's also not forget Sashi's brilliance in trading Demario Davis (who is now having a great season) for a safety who didn't even make the team cutting Haden (who is having a good season) from a thin secondary, because who would want some veteran stability and leadership in the locker room when you can save Truckstop Jimmy a few hundred thousand off of the millions you are paying Osweiler (gee, another veteran in a QB room that could desperately use them) to be the backup in Denver. Joe Schobert isn't that far behind Demario Davis' season in terms of production. Our defense isn't the problem. its our offense who cant score any points. the saving money issue isn't the problem to me. cap space can be pushed forward into future years. the CBs and MLB are performing admirably enough. Offense hurts bad. real bad. Josh mccown could have got us some wins and we souldnt be talking about this. that being said probably a good thingw e didnt since its pretty obvious Kizer isnt the guy, so at least we know now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchdigger Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 So I say "Drop the excuses" and get excuses. 9 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Pettine? He won 3 games and had the highest paid defense in the league and one of the older teams in the league as well. Hue has the youngest and cheapest roster in the league. After starting out 7-4 (how great would that be?), he went7-9 in year one. That "highest paid defense" included a highly paid Donte Whitner, Joe Haden, Ahtyba Rubin, Paul Kruger, Karlos Dansby and Paul Kruger (aka "guys who suck"). Two of those expensive vets led the team in missed tackles. It was the last time we beat Pittsburgh (who were 11-5 that year). Despite all that cash Ray Farmer layer out to middle of the road vets, our defense is quantifiably and demonstrably better this year with the cheap kids. And we still can't find a way to win. There is no excuse to be this bad. To not be improving. To rotate QBs like this. To have so many penalties. To make so many errors in game management. To stand in front of a camera and say "I wouldn't change a thing". It's either stupiduty or sabotage, and I don't think Hue is stupid. I think he is a very clever con man who is trying to get Haslam to pay him to coach in Cincinnati next year. I think there is a much better chance of that than him ever having a winning record in Cleveland. Players aren't the only ones who have figured out how to milk Truck Stop Jimmy. It's sad, but that's what this team is to many - a quick stop to get maximum cash and give minimum effort. Coaches are no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Mistake said it best. The offense not being able to score is why we suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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