Turnobili Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said: I wouldn't say Brown or Sanders retired "early" they both put in a good decade or so. Their production never fell off is what throws people. well, they both retired while still playing at a very high level and didnt seem to be significantly slowed by age/decline. that's not the norm, which is why its considered retiring early. not to say everybody else is frank gore (a lot of running backs retire involuntarily) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 1 hour ago, ET80 said: I think this is a bit revisionist - Bell had an injury history creeping up on him and wasn't really doing much with his "waiting to exhale" running style, as holes weren't really opening up. I think he had a few good seasons left in him, but not what his peak was capable of getting. RB is a position where the decline is pretty permanent - once it's gone, it doesn't come back. Sure. I think if he had 2 more similar seasons in Pitt he’d be borderline. But maybe I was just partial to his running style and success in Pittsburgh. I actually think he would have done great with us in 2019 before he turned us down and we drafted Jacobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 (edited) Gale Sayers played five good seasons...and wasn’t near as productive as Alvin Kamara. HOF Edited September 12, 2021 by sammymvpknight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 (edited) On 8/27/2021 at 8:02 PM, Jakuvious said: Being on a hall of fame pace this early into a career as a RB is borderline meaningless. Making the hall as a RB, for a long time, has been as much about staying healthy as anything else. RBs can decline so quickly and so suddenly. Avoiding that is a bigger deal to the HOF resume in the end. Todd Gurley was on a hall of fame pace 4 years into his career. Larry Johnson had 5200+ yards from scrimmage 4 years into his career, despite basically not playing as a rookie. Le'Veon Bell was on a hall of fame pace at this point in his career. Jamal Lewis, Steven Jackson, Maurice Jones-Drew, Chris Johnson, etc., all were in similar territory in yards from scrimmage, regardless of the rushing/receiving ratio. Tons of guys have been super productive at this same point in their careers. The road block isn't going to be whether the yards are rushing or receiving, the road block will be the fact that most RBs fall off a cliff before they reach the point where it's actually a hall of fame career. So sure, he's on a hall of fame pace if he has a 10+ year career. But until he's still going strong in like year 7 or 8 it's way too optimistic to assume anything like that yet. While you're not wrong at all, one thing you didn't mention is the number of carries these guys had in that 4-year span, which is worth mentioning when speculating about how Kamara's career might compare in the long run. If his usage remains the same I think he might be able to avoid that cliff that RBs fall off of for a bit longer. First 4 years: Lewis - 1,239 rushing attempts CJ2k - 1,187 rushing attempts Gurley - 1,042 rushing attempts Jackson - 971 rushing attempts Lev Bell - 908 rushing attempts MJD - 842 rushing attempts Kamara - 672 rushing attempts I bet this is becomes even more extreme if you work in college carries, Kamara was a backup for his whole collegiate career. So as far as running backs go, I think Kamara has a great chance of prolonging his career if the Saints can keep his rushing attempts low like they have. I like him as a slot WR and receiving back between the 20s, give him most his ground work when you're in scoring position IMO Edited September 12, 2021 by Dome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Dome said: While you're not wrong at all, one thing you didn't mention is the number of carries these guys had in that 4-year span, which is worth mentioning when speculating about how Kamara's career might compare in the long run. If his usage remains the same I think he might be able to avoid that cliff that RBs fall off of for a bit longer. First 4 years: Lewis - 1,239 rushing attempts CJ2k - 1,187 rushing attempts Gurley - 1,042 rushing attempts Jackson - 971 rushing attempts Lev Bell - 908 rushing attempts MJD - 842 rushing attempts Kamara - 672 rushing attempts I bet this is becomes even more extreme if you work in college carries, Kamara was a backup for his whole collegiate career. So as far as running backs go, I think Kamara has a great chance of prolonging his career if the Saints can keep his rushing attempts low like they have. I like him as a slot WR and receiving back between the 20s, give him most his ground work when you're in scoring position IMO I think that Kamara is the only back in the NFL that could be a legit WR. If he drops off at RB...he'd still be a great 3rd down back and slot WR. I do think that his game is more sustainable than most. He just needs to avoid big injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 Alvin Kamara will be a first ballot Hall of Famer by the end of his career. I expect him to have pretty good longevity given how light his workload was in college and thus far in the NFL. He doesn't have much mileage on his legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 He is on pace but needs 2-3 more Pro Bowl caliber seasons. Due to his lack of 1st team all Pro seasons and lack of rushing yards, I think it's going to be one of those things where he will have to wait a long time to get in but eventually should as long as he keeps up this level of play until he is 28 or 29. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 On 9/12/2021 at 12:38 PM, sammymvpknight said: Gale Sayers played five good seasons...and wasn’t near as productive as Alvin Kamara. HOF different era. Sayers was several times first team All Pro and led the league in rushing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, SBLIII said: different era. Sayers was several times first team All Pro and led the league in rushing Lots of guys who lead the league in rushing who never sniff the HOF. All Pro is a subjective award. I think that you can make an excellent argument that Kamara has been every bit as valuable as Sayers has through his first four seasons. edited because of a ton of typos Edited September 16, 2021 by sammymvpknight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonMcC2018 Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 It'll be tough to get in at that position in the current NFL. Is Adrian Peterson the only likely HoF running back from this century? (I'm not putting Frank Gore in). Marshawn Lynch is the only other one who might have a shot, but again I wouldn't put him in personally. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 7 hours ago, sammymvpknight said: Lots of guys who lead the league in rushing who never sniff the HOF. All Pro is a subjective award. I think that you can make an excellent argument that Kamara has been every bit as valuable as Sayers has through his first four seasons. I think things like rushing titles and All-Pros have been more relevant to HOF criteria than value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 On 9/16/2021 at 7:57 AM, sammymvpknight said: Lots of guys who lead the league in rushing who never sniff the HOF. All Pro is a subjective award. I think that you can make an excellent argument that Kamara has been every bit as valuable as Sayers has through his first four seasons. edited because of a ton of typos If Gale Sayers was drafted in 2015 and played until this season (instead of 65-71), and leaves with his exact numbers as they were, he's a footnote on a Wikipedia page. Much like I feel with Devin Hester, I think Kamara should someday get in on his skill at his position and ability to impact a game in spite of the lack of traditional stats. But it's way too early to talk Kamara and the HoF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: I think Kamara should someday get in on his skill at his position and ability to impact a game in spite of the lack of traditional stats. But it's way too early to talk Kamara and the HoF. There's also the thought that based on the way RBs are being used the way HoF voters value them may change. If Kamara keeps racking up 800/800 high-value seasons and being a, maybe THE key member of a prolific offense, there could (and should) be a solid argument made. As far as Sayers, he passes the numbers test up to his knee injury; and by all accounts he passed the eyeball test as far as being the best player on the field anytime he stepped on one. So for players who were dominant but suffered career ending/altering injuries, I'm down for allowing a Sayers Exception. I think Dwight Stephenson and Terrell Davis are in due to the just application of this. I wish Sterling Sharpe, and probably Priest Holmes, would get looked at through this lens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Gale Sayers played during the Vietnam friggin War Why are we comparing his statistical outputs to Alvin Kamara? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 On 9/16/2021 at 9:47 AM, JonMcC2018 said: It'll be tough to get in at that position in the current NFL. Is Adrian Peterson the only likely HoF running back from this century? (I'm not putting Frank Gore in). Marshawn Lynch is the only other one who might have a shot, but again I wouldn't put him in personally. I assume you mean the 10s decade, because there were a handful from the 00s The bar will move around a little over time. I agree that Lynch and MAYBE Shady can be in the discussion, but I'm not putting either in The nature of the position is changing. I think a 15k rusher is going to be unlikely, but I can definitely see some of these current guys hitting 15k+ yards from scrimmage - and that might be good enough in this era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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