jrry32 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 I'm confident Karlaftis is going to make some people eat their words. Those looking solely at his numbers are ignoring the staggering amount of double teams he faced in certain games. When that dude was able to get consistent one on ones, he wrecked tackles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 12 hours ago, jrry32 said: I'm confident Karlaftis is going to make some people eat their words. Those looking solely at his numbers are ignoring the staggering amount of double teams he faced in certain games. When that dude was able to get consistent one on ones, he wrecked tackles. Isn't this true of almost every top pass rushing prospect though? I mean, I have a tough time imagining that Karloftis saw a significantly larger number of double teams than Thibs or Hutchinson. Maybe Hutchinson because of Ojabo, but I don't know that the difference is that big. And if the concerns most have are athletic concerns, then the number of double teams he faced doesn't really enter into it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Daniel said: Isn't this true of almost every top pass rushing prospect though? I mean, I have a tough time imagining that Karloftis saw a significantly larger number of double teams than Thibs or Hutchinson. Maybe Hutchinson because of Ojabo, but I don't know that the difference is that big. And if the concerns most have are athletic concerns, then the number of double teams he faced doesn't really enter into it. No, it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchDJ Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, jrry32 said: No, it's not. What top pass-rushing prospect that doesn’t apply to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, ClutchDJ said: What top pass-rushing prospect that doesn’t apply to? None of the others I've watched were seeing the sort of focus and double teams that Karlaftis did in certain games. It was very much unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, jrry32 said: None of the others I've watched were seeing the sort of focus and double teams that Karlaftis did in certain games. It was very much unique. It would make sense...if only cause it's a lot easier to focus on one guy when you're playing Purdue than when you're playing Bama or Ohio St. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, Ragnarok said: It would make sense...if only cause it's a lot easier to focus on one guy when you're playing Purdue than when you're playing Bama or Ohio St. Agreed. I think it's something to weigh. Iowa was a team that didn't throw many double teams his way, and he went off. Whereas, I recall Ohio State throwing a lot of double teams his way, including Guard-Tackle double teams, and held him in check because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 21 minutes ago, jrry32 said: None of the others I've watched were seeing the sort of focus and double teams that Karlaftis did in certain games. It was very much unique. Yeah and I recall Karlaftis getting totally engulfed by Faalele so much so it was like he was not even there. His length absolutely destroyed him and his size and power did not allow him to be pushed around either. Most of the top sack guys in the league have had at one point in college a pretty high number of sacks or TFLs. The lack of those numbers for Karlaftis is concerning and maybe he does not have the speed or ability to finish the play. Will see athletically, tomorrow is the pro day. He was amazing as a freshman and very productive, I have been disappointed with him since then honestly and the injury does seem to have made him less able to finish. But who knows maybe he was just out of shape coming into this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 5 hours ago, Ozzy said: Yeah and I recall Karlaftis getting totally engulfed by Faalele so much so it was like he was not even there. His length absolutely destroyed him and his size and power did not allow him to be pushed around either. Most of the top sack guys in the league have had at one point in college a pretty high number of sacks or TFLs. The lack of those numbers for Karlaftis is concerning and maybe he does not have the speed or ability to finish the play. Will see athletically, tomorrow is the pro day. He was amazing as a freshman and very productive, I have been disappointed with him since then honestly and the injury does seem to have made him less able to finish. But who knows maybe he was just out of shape coming into this year. Are you ignoring that Karlaftis had 17 TFLs and 7.5 sacks as a true freshman? Those numbers either compare to or are better than the production that the following DEs put up in their best college season: Chandler Jones J.J. Watt Nick Bosa Cameron Jordan Cameron Heyward Rashan Gary Preston Smith Za'Darius Smith Jaelan Phillips Danielle Hunter Arik Armstead Jayson Oweh Frank Clark Leonard Floyd Olivier Vernon Jason Pierre-Paul Everson Griffen Cliff Avril Here's something that might surprise you too. Joey Bosa, after having an insane sophomore season, only produced 5 sacks in his final year in college (junior year). Did he forget how to finish? Or did the amount of offensive attention make it much harder on him? And I'm not saying Karlaftis is Joey Bosa. He's not. But I am saying that his freshman year was incredible considering his age and lack of football experience. Constant double teams can neutralize talented pass rushers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 Speaking of Minnesota, here's an example of what Karlaftis faced at certain points this year lol: Granted, Faalele did do well against him in their limited snaps. (I'd estimate Karlaftis lined up on the opposite side of the OL on the majority of passing snaps.) But that's a tough stylistic matchup for a guy like Karlaftis. Faalele is massive, long, and freakishly gifted. He has a skillset built to neutralize Karlaftis's strengths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEagle Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, jrry32 said: Agreed. I think it's something to weigh. Iowa was a team that didn't throw many double teams his way, and he went off. Whereas, I recall Ohio State throwing a lot of double teams his way, including Guard-Tackle double teams, and held him in check because of it. I just watched Karlaftis against Ohio State--expecting him to be double teamed every play. He really wasn't. He's #5. Edited March 29, 2022 by TheEagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, TheEagle said: I just watched Karlaftis against Ohio State--expecting him to be double teamed every play. He really wasn't. He's #5. I've seen the game. But I watched the first few minutes again to make sure my memory is right, and it is. Ohio State had multiple blockers putting their hands on him on 30ish% of the passing plays in the first few minutes of the video. It also mixed in PA passes, moving the pocket, screens, and short passes to prevent him making much of an impact. On one of the few plays where he got a one on one and Stroud took a deeper drop, he bulled Petit-Frere into Stroud's lap. They schemed to take him out of the game and successfully did. Kudos to Ryan Day. Edited March 29, 2022 by jrry32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, jrry32 said: Are you ignoring that Karlaftis had 17 TFLs and 7.5 sacks as a true freshman? Those numbers either compare to or are better than the production that the following DEs put up in their best college season: Chandler Jones J.J. Watt Nick Bosa Cameron Jordan Cameron Heyward Rashan Gary Preston Smith Za'Darius Smith Jaelan Phillips Danielle Hunter Arik Armstead Jayson Oweh Frank Clark Leonard Floyd Olivier Vernon Jason Pierre-Paul Everson Griffen Cliff Avril Here's something that might surprise you too. Joey Bosa, after having an insane sophomore season, only produced 5 sacks in his final year in college (junior year). Did he forget how to finish? Or did the amount of offensive attention make it much harder on him? And I'm not saying Karlaftis is Joey Bosa. He's not. But I am saying that his freshman year was incredible considering his age and lack of football experience. Constant double teams can neutralize talented pass rushers. I said in this post he was amazing as a freshman but that has not continued after the injury and he looks like a different player last year. Maybe he was out of shape but he was not nearly as impactful. Also a lot of those guys who you say were not productive in college, and yes some were not, they were absolutely great athletes with rare physical abilities, especially Oweh, Hunter, Phillips, Gary, Floyd, Bosa, Griffen, Avril and Vernon. All had great 40 times and very good strength numbers for their size and or weight, will see how Georgie looks today in that. Doubt he gets 4.65 like Ebiketie and really doubt he is in the 4.5 range where most of those guys you listed are. But yeah guys like Za'Darius, Armstead, Preston Smith, Clark, Heyward, Jones, JJ and Jordan did not have great 40 times but all are absolutely longer and wider than George outside of Frank Clark. Also three of them play as a 3/4 DE so it is a little different position. But yeah if George runs a 4.6 that will answer a lot of questions I have especially if one wants to view him as a 3/4 OLB. The fear with George is turning out like Bjoern Werner, similar size and athletic profile potentially, Similar production yet Werner was better especially that final season by far. Total in three years for both. Werner: 99 tackles, 23.5 sacks, 35 TFLs, 9 PD, 2 FF, 1 INT Karlaftis: 97 tackles, 14 sacks, 29 TFLs, 6 PD, 4 FF, 0 INT Granted Werner played a few more games and George was hurt 2020 a lot of it. Both similar size and potentially athletic ability based on that 40 time, and both were foreigners who people assumed had great potential and upside with raw ability with little experience. Edited March 29, 2022 by Ozzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 Bjoern Werner is a good comparison. His combine numbers were awful. Just like Jarvus Jones, his athleticism did not match production and it was a warning. Karlaftis VJ(31 v 38) and BJ(111 vs 121) numbers are much better than Werner showing more explosiveness. Also slightly better in the short shuttle( 4.4 vs 4.36) Werner - https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=10115 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techbert Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 17 hours ago, Daniel said: Isn't this true of almost every top pass rushing prospect though? I mean, I have a tough time imagining that Karloftis saw a significantly larger number of double teams than Thibs or Hutchinson. Maybe Hutchinson because of Ojabo, but I don't know that the difference is that big. And if the concerns most have are athletic concerns, then the number of double teams he faced doesn't really enter into it. I think there is a lot of bad analysis of Karlaftis. He is athletic enough, and strong, and has advanced traits like hand usage. But all an offensive coordinator has to do when planning for Purdue is figure out how to keep the action away from Karlaftis. People being people try to make it more than that and find flaws that are not there. George is no Werner, who benefited from a stacked OSU defense. George will outperform his draft slot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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