EDGE rushers

[Danger]

1. Hutch
2. Thibs

3. Walker
4. Jermaine Johnson
5. Ojabo*

6. Karlaftis

7. Mafe
8. Ebiketie
9. Bonitto
10. Cameron Thomas
 

[lark25]

9 hours ago, Ozzy said:

March 29th in a big day, Purdue's pro day and I want to see Karlaftis run a 40.  

 

George Karlaftis

6-4 266
21 reps at 225
38" vertical
121 Broad jump
4.36 short shuttle
NA 40 yard dash

 

 

Boye Mafe

6-4 257
21 reps at 225
41.5" vertical
125 Broad jump
4.20 short shuttle
4.53 40 yard dash

 

Mafe is just as strong, has a better vertical, better broad jump and better short shuttle and my guess is a much better 40 time.  Also was a better player this past year that got more pressure on the QB and sacks, also had a great Senior bowl against top competition.  

 

I still question his ability in a 3/4 when he is more a 4/3 DE where Mafe could do both I feel especially as a 3/4 OLB because of his ability to bend the corner.  George I thought disappointed this past year and did not live up to his ability and seemed a little different off that injury, and Travon Walker/Jermaine Johnson jumped him as prospect and so did Boye arguably especially after his workouts and his Senior bowl week play.

 

On paper though Mafe is the better athlete and you can see it in the games as well.  That 40 for Karlaftis though, that will be interesting but that is assuming he even runs it.  

Sorry @Ozzy I think you're usually not too far off the mark but this is way off.

- GK and BM both jumped 38" at combine. GK is 9lbs heavier. If we split the difference maybe BM jumps 1, max 2" higher at 10lbs lighter

- GK was more productive in pass rushing this year. Bear in mind 54 pressures this year and 55 freshman year, looked solid in the 2 or so games before injury sophomore year. Total pff grade 87.2. 

BM 42 total pressures but never exceeded 20 in any other year. Pff grade 81.2. Did that as a 23 year old

- Neither GK nor BM meet the 33" arm threshold some have stated. BTW I believe 32 is OK, GK is slightly longer with 32, 7/8, BM has 32, 5/8.

Id class GK as a top 15ish pick. BM perhaps late 1st round.

[EagleBlueDon]

Karlaftis wrecks dudes in 1 on 1 reps. He gets double teamed and chipped a good bit. He's also really good from a 2 point stance. I like him a lot. His lateral quickness, holding the POA/edge, and play diagnosis all need work but I'll take my chances with his ability to rush the passer plus his age factored in. Outside of the top 2 EDGES, I like Johnson then Karlaftis the best. But it's not a huge gap. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by EagleBlueDon

[jrry32]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:56 PM, EagleBlueDon said:

Karlaftis wrecks dudes in 1 on 1 reps. He gets double teamed and chipped a good bit. He's also really good from a 2 point stance. I like him a lot. His lateral quickness, holding the POA/edge, and play diagnosis all need work but I'll take my chances with his ability to rush the passer plus his age factored in. Outside of the top 2 EDGES, I like Johnson then Karlaftis the best. But it's not a huge gap. 

Agreed. Teams slowed him down by throwing a lot of double teams his way. The teams dumb enough to leave him singled up paid for it. I think he'll be a Michael Bennett or Chris Long type player. Underrated because his pressure numbers and pass rush win rate are more impressive than his sack totals.

[EagleBlueDon]

32 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Agreed. Teams slowed him down by throwing a lot of double teams his way. The teams dumb enough to leave him singled up paid for it. I think he'll be a Michael Bennett or Chris Long type player. Underrated because his pressure numbers and pass rush win rate are more impressive than his sack totals.

Yup I bet a lot of people watch his tape and don't realize just how much attention was dedicated to stopping him. Then once you step back and realize just how much he was doubled and chipped, and compare it to when he's 1 on 1, it'll really change your opinion of him for the better. I can probably count on 1 hand, maybe 2, how many times through 3 games I watched he lost a 1 on 1 matchup.

[CWood21]

On 3/21/2022 at 9:29 PM, Ozzy said:

Mafe is just as strong, has a better vertical, better broad jump and better short shuttle and my guess is a much better 40 time.  Also was a better player this past year that got more pressure on the QB and sacks, also had a great Senior bowl against top competition.  

 

One of them was a HUGE liability against the run, and the other one wasn't.

[lark25]

5 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Agreed. Teams slowed him down by throwing a lot of double teams his way. The teams dumb enough to leave him singled up paid for it. I think he'll be a Michael Bennett or Chris Long type player. Underrated because his pressure numbers and pass rush win rate are more impressive than his sack totals.

Also George is a good to very good, but not elite athlete. I would not class either Bennett or Long as good athletes, just average.

I dont mind the comps but I think GK has more upside than those guys as a pass rusher. A reverse long in that he will likely be a better rusher in the pros, just as a gut feel.

Purdue's generally less talented than most B1G teams (had a few ballers on offense) and doubles, chips etc were routine for George who was the best player on that D and it wasn't close. You can't do that in the nfl. If he's playing opposite another solid pass rusher someone's going to feast if you do that too much.

I find it ironic that GK stock dipped at the combine. His jumps were elite

[CWood21]

8 hours ago, lark25 said:

I find it ironic that GK stock dipped at the combine. His jumps were elite

He didn't drop.  He was always more of that 11-20 range rather then a top 10 pick.  Thibs and Hutch were clearly ahead of him before the Combine.  What Travon Walker did pushed him ahead of Karlaftis.  I think you've got Jermaine Johnson in that same tier as Karlaftis.

[jrry32]

23 hours ago, lark25 said:

Also George is a good to very good, but not elite athlete. I would not class either Bennett or Long as good athletes, just average.

I dont mind the comps but I think GK has more upside than those guys as a pass rusher. A reverse long in that he will likely be a better rusher in the pros, just as a gut feel.

Purdue's generally less talented than most B1G teams (had a few ballers on offense) and doubles, chips etc were routine for George who was the best player on that D and it wasn't close. You can't do that in the nfl. If he's playing opposite another solid pass rusher someone's going to feast if you do that too much.

I find it ironic that GK stock dipped at the combine. His jumps were elite

I think you're underrating Chris Long's athleticism. In his prime, he was explosive off the snap and had the flexibility to turn the corner. I feel Karlaftis shares Long's get-off and IQ as a rusher, but he has Michael Bennett's power and violent hands.

[lark25]

6 hours ago, jrry32 said:

I think you're underrating Chris Long's athleticism. In his prime, he was explosive off the snap and had the flexibility to turn the corner. I feel Karlaftis shares Long's get-off and IQ as a rusher, but he has Michael Bennett's power and violent hands.

Ok i stand corrected. I suppose I am thinking of him post injuries where he was ok not great. Genuinely surprised Long jumped a 10'4 broad.

[Bobby816]

Jermaine Johnson if he was a year or 2 younger would hands down be the 3rd best DE in this class IMO. I think age does play a part in an investment in a player, especially a 1st rounder. If you're not a win now team (most teams at the top of the draft), to have a guy that after his 5th year option be almost 29 isn't a good deal. When most guys are still 21 maybe 22, and will be 26-27 after that 5th year option. Makes that 2nd contract easier to swallow when you know they have a few good years left.

Walker still just hits that in between DE/DT mark for me. If you watch film on him... almost all his sacks and pressures are from the interior. Most teams will be drafting him s a 4-3 DE and that's actually not what he is. If you're drafting in the top 10, it's a huge risk to draft a guy in the "hopes" that he moves smoothly and in great fashion to a full time DE.

[nicfre2011]

39 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Jermaine Johnson if he was a year or 2 younger would hands down be the 3rd best DE in this class IMO. I think age does play a part in an investment in a player, especially a 1st rounder. If you're not a win now team (most teams at the top of the draft), to have a guy that after his 5th year option be almost 29 isn't a good deal. When most guys are still 21 maybe 22, and will be 26-27 after that 5th year option. Makes that 2nd contract easier to swallow when you know they have a few good years left.

Walker still just hits that in between DE/DT mark for me. If you watch film on him... almost all his sacks and pressures are from the interior. Most teams will be drafting him s a 4-3 DE and that's actually not what he is. If you're drafting in the top 10, it's a huge risk to draft a guy in the "hopes" that he moves smoothly and in great fashion to a full time DE.

As a Chiefs fan, Jermaine Johnson would be a great pick for us. I can see him being available at #15/#16 and IF the Eagles are looking elsewhere (I can see them liking Johnson with one of their first round picks), I could see the Chiefs being interested in trading up for him. He fits the mold for what Steve Spagnoulo looks for in an EDGE...and we are in a win now mode, so I could see his polish and maturity as a pass rusher and run defender getting him early snaps if not a starting role immediately opposite Frank Clark.

Edited March 25, 2022 by nicfre2011

[.Buzz]

Someone talk me off the ledge with Travon Walker.

I like him as a prospect, but his lack of pass rush ability shown in college throws me off him, especially when we’re talking the top pick/top 5.

The only thing I can fall back on is just how rare he is athletically and how stout he is against the run, but you need to be able to get after in the pass rush department if you’re getting taken this high imo.

[jebrick]

1 minute ago, .Buzz said:

Someone talk me off the ledge with Travon Walker.

I like him as a prospect, but his lack of pass rush ability shown in college throws me off him, especially when we’re talking the top pick/top 5.

The only thing I can fall back on is just how rare he is athletically and how stout he is against the run, but you need to be able to get after in the pass rush department if you’re getting taken this high imo.

You would have to draft him as a 3 tech if you are playing him inside.  Or a 5 tech in a 3-4.   Some one way take him high and see if he can do a 9 tech.  A 3 tech or a 7-9 tech could be taken that high.  I would have to rewatch the tape but I am guessing he played 5 tech at Georgia.

[.Buzz]

3 minutes ago, jebrick said:

You would have to draft him as a 3 tech if you are playing him inside.  Or a 5 tech in a 3-4.   Some one way take him high and see if he can do a 9 tech.  A 3 tech or a 7-9 tech could be taken that high.  I would have to rewatch the tape but I am guessing he played 5 tech at Georgia.

With the new DC it’s hard to tell what front we’ll be running, he’s largely said it’ll be a hybrid and fit the scheme around the personnel. 
 

An edge rusher is the immediate and obvious need though, which makes me ???