EDGE rushers

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, Scoundrel said:

I mean he told multiple people he was doing the whole thing just the day before 

I'd say Nick Bosa "quitting on his team" completely is much more of a red flag, and he still went #2 overall.

[RedGold]

37 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

 

Being a nerd is not the interesting I was referring to. Everyone’s a nerd. All of you are nerds. Knew a couple guys in the league that were the biggest nerds I ever met. Interesting is overly manic/full of oneself/withdrawn to an alienating level/lack of accountability/etc. any of those would be concerning and more. I tried to use “interesting” to pass less judgement. 

[Scoundrel]

3 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I'd say Nick Bosa "quitting on his team" completely is much more of a red flag, and he still went #2 overall.

What premier tackles did Kayvon win against? Against Rhyan he was held in check had two sacks against other lineman. Against Abe Lucas was held in check and had sacks against the other tackle.

[jrry32]

14 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

I mean he told multiple people he was doing the whole thing just the day before 

My outlook is who cares. He could have faked an injury or chosen not to participate before the Combine and wouldn't have received any criticism. 

[Hunter2_1]

Did this last year. I didn't get to watch much college football at all during the season, but catching up on a lot recently. Using full games, condensed games, and highlight packages, and I've deliberately selected their tougher opponents for film. I've not read the thread or any analysis on the players yet, so I'm going in cold. They're in order for who impressed me the most;

 

1. Hutchinson

Effort and strength immediately stand out, after just a handful of snaps. He's pushing OTs so far back on a lot of these snaps, even if play is to other side. You notice how dominant and strong he is. Looks like he can be an all-rounder, he's got athleticism for 4-3, but also the power for 3Tech maybe. His moves are good, his rips and clubs look very useful for him. Lots of speed to rush, long arming etc. A beast, but he also looks like he has speed too. 

2. Thibodeux

Explosive. First step is like a stop-watch. His bend and dip is really freaky, and his speed is impressive. His anticipation of the snap is ludicrous. Must be the fastest reaction time I can recall in recent prospects. I've also seen him man-handled, seems if the OT gets set and hasn't been stunned by KT's explosiveness/pace - he can be locked up. Seen some good hand fighting though. Uses his length really well in run game, he finds the ball carrier. 

3. Travon Walker

The power in his hands it's like his hands and forearms are made of concrete. He's blasting OL in their chest, and their heads are snapping back. Explosive, and he can shoot through gaps. He gets to players really quick for his size. Combative and tenacious. Looks like sometimes he reaches and over-extends, I can imagine a more savy NFL Lineman can bait him a bit and take advantage of his tenacity and eagerness to meet them at the punch. But I'm loving this....scary guy.

4. Jermaine Johnson

Effort and relentlessness, he doesn't stop whatever he is doing. Good length, he's stacking and shedding and I can see him doing well in run game with this asset. If he wins it seems to be by either speed, a powerful punch or just relentlessness. Not seeing many 'moves' so he'll probably need a bit of more refining. Stud though.

5. George Karlafitis

Low and strong. A bit like Hutch, I'm watching OTs get pushed back weeks here. It is impressive how low he gets before driving as well, that must be a handful to block. When you consider the strength he brings with that low position as well, no wonder OTs are on skates. Not much flexibility and has issues disengaging, but is in backfield a lot through pure strength and power. Lot of jabs, bull rushes, some really good countering as well. Another one who is relentless.

6. Boye Mafe

Good initial step and explosion off snap, his hands are sooo active on the outside which is helping him get separation. Yet another who is relentless. Seems to be productive only on outside from what I've seen. Looks like an all-round pass rusher with good hand moves, motor, speed and he does also have power. The long arm is really effective for him. Doesn't seem to make an impact in run game though, from what I can see. Not really an inside option either pass or run defending

7. David Ojabo

Clearly an athlete and has impressive stride, and hip flip. He does seem limited as a pass rusher though, he's either beating them round the outside just on raw pace or with the spin move inside. Will need further developing. He's always one-on-one from what I'm watching too, and I suppose you would be with Hutch on other side. Tools are there, athleticism is there, but needs more.

 

just based on the ol' eye test. No stats used, I have no idea about their numbers either game stats or combine. Fun doing this though, will look at some more when got time.

[MSURacerDT55]

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

I don’t know if he has more upside than Thibodeaux. Thibs is probably the most talented player in this class. Just takes plays off and has questionable intangibles.

I just hope he is just misunderstood and not another Robert Nkemdiche. Also there was a lot of buzz about Parsons character this time last year and now that has all but disappeared.  

I actually think Thibodeaux sliding might be the best thing for him, if he has any type of pride, he would use this as motivation and take the same approach as Parsons. The problem is, we heard about specific incidents that Parsons was a part of this time last year, if im not mistaken there has been just speculation up until this point. 

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, Ragnarok said:

I think Thibodeaux is victim of the same overthink as Nick Bosa.  I remember in the lead up to that draft the talk questioning Bosa's love of the game cause he hung it up his last year in college.

Possibly.  I'm just parroting what people say.  I don't have access to interviews with Thibs, so I don't account for crap like that doing my rankings, which is why I have Thibs as my No. 1 pass rusher and number 1 overall player.  He's got a combination of speed, strength, and bend that no one else in this class does.

[MSURacerDT55]

7 minutes ago, Daniel said:

He's got a combination of speed, strength, and bend that no one else in this class does.

I think Adam Anderson has, but point taken. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by MSURacerDT55

[MWil23]

26 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

What premier tackles did Kayvon win against?

Remember when Vernon Gholston owned Jake long head to head and was good for 2+ sacks? That aged well.

26 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

Against Rhyan he was held in check had two sacks against other lineman. Against Abe Lucas was held in check and had sacks against the other tackle.

So in order to be considered a premier prospect you have to dominate premier OT and the rest of the other body of work should be discarded?

[Daniel]

3 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I think Adam Anderson has, but point taken. 

He might, but I haven't evaluated him at all.

I'll change my phrasing to "that anyone I've evaluated in this class does."

This class of Edges, to my mind, is super specialized.  There are a lot of guys that are very good at a few things, and very bad at others.  Then there are a few stragglers that are well rounded but not great.  Thibs is the only one I see that looks like he's ready to go in as a stud pass rusher right away.

[MSURacerDT55]

8 minutes ago, Daniel said:

He might, but I haven't evaluated him at all.

I'll change my phrasing to "that anyone I've evaluated in this class does."

This class of Edges, to my mind, is super specialized.  There are a lot of guys that are very good at a few things, and very bad at others.  Then there are a few stragglers that are well rounded but not great.  Thibs is the only one I see that looks like he's ready to go in as a stud pass rusher right away.

Bro, I know he has his issues but those first few reps are as elite a bend and ankle flexability I have seen in years. I guarentee teams are watching his situation very closely. 

This is a 15 sack a year type of talent 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by MSURacerDT55

[Scoundrel]

Parsons character was in question but not his work ethic. 

[Scoundrel]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Remember when Vernon Gholston owned Jake long head to head and was good for 2+ sacks? That aged well.

So in order to be considered a premier prospect you have to dominate premier OT and the rest of the other body of work should be discarded?

Hutch gets knocked for the Georgia game. Why does Kayvon get a pass? Anyone would want their top 5 pick to play dominant against top tackles as opposed to not? And you use Vernon Gholston as the one example who compares closer to Travon Walker’s game but you’re high on Travon.

[MWil23]

20 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

Hutch gets knocked for the Georgia game.

He also vaulted up the draft boards to begin with by dominating an awful OT against OSU in the snow

20 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

Why does Kayvon get a pass? Anyone would want their top 5 pick to play dominant against top tackles as opposed to not?

He doesn't get a pass; to me, it's just not enough to justify a "fall" down the draft boards. He has elite production (2 years) before the injury, tested extremely well, and his tape checks out.

20 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

And you use Vernon Gholston as the one example who compares closer to Travon Walker’s game but you’re high on Travon.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/vernon-gholston-1.html

Vernon Gholston had 8.5 sacks as a sophomore and 14 as a junior with 2+ coming against #1 overall pick Jake Long in a 4-3 defense with his hand in the ground.

Travon Walker is a 5 Tech DE in a mostly 3 down DL group who slides to the edge or inside on 3rd and long situations. They're really not alike at all coming out, so I personally don't agree with the comparison at all.

He's basically Rashaan Gary or Chris Wormley from UM in what he was asked to do in that defense, or even a Jadeveon Clowney.

Explosive, heavy handed, raw as a pass rusher, will have a very high floor as a run defender and vs. double teams (with a TE chip or block) as an edge setter, with the potential to maybe develop into a high end pass rusher.

[Scoundrel]

5 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

He also vaulted up the draft boards to begin with by dominating an awful OT against OSU in the snow

He doesn't get a pass; to me, it's just not enough to justify a "fall" down the draft boards. He has elite production (2 years) before the injury, tested extremely well, and his tape checks out.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/vernon-gholston-1.html

Vernon Gholston had 8.5 sacks as a sophomore and 14 as a junior with 2+ coming against #1 overall pick Jake Long in a 4-3 defense with his hand in the ground.

Travon Walker is a 5 Tech DE in a mostly 3 down DL group who slides to the edge or inside on 3rd and long situations. They're really not alike at all coming out, so I personally don't agree with the comparison at all.

He's basically Rashaan Gary or Chris Wormley from UM in what he was asked to do in that defense, or even a Jadeveon Clowney.

Explosive, heavy handed, raw as a pass rusher, will have a very high floor as a run defender and vs. double teams (with a TE chip or block) as an edge setter, with the potential to maybe develop into a high end pass rusher.

More comparable than Kayvon is to him.