The Mike Vrabel thread (+ coaching staff)

[TitanRedd]

5 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

What should we be doing right now with our offensive personnel that we aren’t currently doing?

its a serious question. What should we be doing with an OL that can’t pass block, Hopkins, NWI, Burks, Moore and Chig?

Who from that group can consistent win one on ones?

 

im sure we can be “more creative”. But I’m genuinely curious as to what you think we could be doing with our personnel that we aren’t doing now

 

 

edit - and I’m not saying this to defend coaches. Multiple posters on here keep challenging our scheme, etc and saying our personnel could be doing more. Yet nobody has an answer as to what 

How often do you see us go to a quick passing game, not a bubble screen run slants, shallow crosses, how about use Chig as a h back. Why we didn’t make it a point to get spears involved, we’re constantly getting blitzed, why not use the RB as a weapon in the flat., no let’s run the wildcat with Henry, let’s keeping forcing the run hoping to dial up the passing game off play action. It’s ways to counter a bad OL, it’s been done before in the history of the game. He only knows 1 way to win just like fisher. 

[-Hope-]

4 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

What should we be doing right now with our offensive personnel that we aren’t currently doing?

its a serious question. What should we be doing with an OL that can’t pass block, Hopkins, NWI, Burks, Moore and Chig?

Who from that group can consistent win one on ones?

 

im sure we can be “more creative”. But I’m genuinely curious as to what you think we could be doing with our personnel that we aren’t doing now

 

 

edit - and I’m not saying this to defend coaches. Multiple posters on here keep challenging our scheme, etc and saying our personnel could be doing more. Yet nobody has an answer as to what 

we don't even try to have a quick passing game. watch literally any other team in the nfl- well, maybe not the panthers, but at the very least everyone else i've watched this year- and you will see that they have a complement of short, schemed-up high-percentage throws to get someone the ball in space. we do this basically never. will levis is being asked to spend the *entire game* attempting low-percentage downfield throws to receivers who can't separate or (sans hopkins) win a contested catch behind an offensive line that can't block. he doesn't have the highest ADOT in football because he's hell-bent on being a gunslinger, it's because those are literally the only passing plays we call. meanwhile we run damn near every single first down and a whole lot of 2nd and longs, and much of the time we do it we take our best receivers off the field just so the defense has to think even less about whether we might change things up a little. there is no element of our offense whatsoever that is unpredictable. our predictability *compounds* our personnel weaknesses by consistently putting us in unfavorable down-and-distance situations.

if we actually try to move away from the run game when it's not working and levis can't make it work, then fine! so be it. but to leave that on the table and smash derrick henry up the gut for 2 YPC a billion times, then ask our rookie QB to pull something out of his *** on incredibly low-percentage down and distance situations is malpractice. yet we do it over and over and over again.

[TitanRedd]

2 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

we don't even try to have a quick passing game. watch literally any other team in the nfl- well, maybe not the panthers, but at the very least everyone else i've watched this year- and you will see that they have a complement of short, schemed-up high-percentage throws to get someone the ball in space. we do this basically never. will levis is being asked to spend the *entire game* attempting low-percentage downfield throws to receivers who can't separate or (sans hopkins) win a contested catch behind an offensive line that can't block. he doesn't have the highest ADOT in football because he's hell-bent on being a gunslinger, it's because those are literally the only passing plays we call. meanwhile we run damn near every single first down and a whole lot of 2nd and longs, and much of the time we do it we take our best receivers off the field just so the defense has to think even less about whether we might change things up a little. there is no element of our offense whatsoever that is unpredictable. our predictability *compounds* our personnel weaknesses by consistently putting us in unfavorable down-and-distance situations.

if we actually try to move away from the run game when it's not working and levis can't make it work, then fine! so be it. but to leave that on the table and smash derrick henry up the gut for 2 YPC a billion times, then ask our rookie QB to pull something out of his *** on incredibly low-percentage down and distance situations is malpractice. yet we do it over and over and over again.

Thank you I been saying this since forever every time people talk about the OL, it’s literally long passing routes all the time, granted Levi’s miss a few wide open throws here & there not taking what the defense gives him. But it’s so many ways we can at least try countering our bad OL. Vrabel is bad for Levi’s he wants him to be his Tanniehill & manage the game

[deeluxx3]

13 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

How often do you see us go to a quick passing game, not a bubble screen run slants, shallow crosses, how about use Chig as a h back. Why we didn’t make it a point to get spears involved, we’re constantly getting blitzed, why not use the RB as a weapon in the flat., no let’s run the wildcat with Henry, let’s keeping forcing the run hoping to dial up the passing game off play action. It’s ways to counter a bad OL, it’s been done before in the history of the game. He only knows 1 way to win just like fisher. 

This game was awful, we can be doing more in general. But Chig as an H back happens every game, we’ve schemed up quick passes to Hopkins multiple times this year. You need to be able to win off the LOS to win quick slants. I don’t disagree that we can do MORE in the quick game, but I don’t think there’s any coach in the world who would say “I don’t want to pick up and easy five yards whenever we can.” Coaching can be better, but you saying that we aren’t playing to our personnel’s strengths, and then just saying we should go quick game, isn’t attached to the reality that our O lacks athletes who can get open in the quick game.

 

i agree 100% that we are to committed to the runs in early downs. But saying we aren’t playing to our personnel’s strengths, and then mentioning Jeff fisher, is disattached to reality. The biggest personnel issue I’ll give you is misusing Spears and using Henry in situations where we should be using spears. 

[-Hope-]

8 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

Coaching can be better, but you saying that we aren’t playing to our personnel’s strengths, and then just saying we should go quick game, isn’t attached to the reality that our O lacks athletes who can get open in the quick game.

tyjae spears had one target today

[deeluxx3]

Again. Playcalling was horrendous today. Horrendous.

but we aren’t having this convo if:

Levis throws to Burks

OL gives Levis enough time to lead Hopkins on the bomb that was dropped/underthrown

 

two TDs drawn up and not executed. 
 

[deeluxx3]

2 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

tyjae spears had one target today

See my last paragraph? 

[-Hope-]

1 minute ago, deeluxx3 said:

See my last paragraph? 

first paragraph: "we don't have anyone we can use in the quick passing game"

second paragraph: "i'll grant you that we're not using our biggest quick passing game weapon"

[deeluxx3]

1 minute ago, -Hope- said:

first paragraph: "we don't have anyone we can use in the quick passing game"

second paragraph: "i'll grant you that we're not using our biggest quick passing game weapon"

I know reading comprehension isn’t your strength, but “lacks” does not mean “don’t have anyone”

[TitanRedd]

20 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

This game was awful, we can be doing more in general. But Chig as an H back happens every game, we’ve schemed up quick passes to Hopkins multiple times this year. You need to be able to win off the LOS to win quick slants. I don’t disagree that we can do MORE in the quick game, but I don’t think there’s any coach in the world who would say “I don’t want to pick up and easy five yards whenever we can.” Coaching can be better, but you saying that we aren’t playing to our personnel’s strengths, and then just saying we should go quick game, isn’t attached to the reality that our O lacks athletes who can get open in the quick game.

 

i agree 100% that we are to committed to the runs in early downs. But saying we aren’t playing to our personnel’s strengths, and then mentioning Jeff fisher, is disattached to reality. The biggest personnel issue I’ll give you is misusing Spears and using Henry in situations where we should be using spears. 

He’s fisher 2.0 agree to disagree he offers nothing aside from being run 1st with a bend but don’t break defense that stubbornly runs the ball. He’s not an innovator when it comes to coaching, he hires a$$ kissers to run the show the way he wants it, this offense isn’t nowhere ran how Kelly ran it in Houston he worked magic with David mills as a rookie. But hey that’s your cup of tea nothing wrong with that I guess, I’ve seen this episode before in TN 

[deeluxx3]

5 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

He’s fisher 2.0 agree to disagree he offers nothing aside from being run 1st with a bend but don’t break defense that stubbornly runs the ball. He’s not an innovator when it comes to coaching, he hires a$$ kissers to run the show the way he wants it, this offense isn’t nowhere ran how Kelly ran it in Houston he worked magic with David mills as a rookie. But hey that’s your cup of tea nothing wrong with that I guess, I’ve seen this episode before in TN 

His first OC choice was Ryan day 

his following OC choices got HC jobs

Nothing you say is ever reflected in reality 

[-Hope-]

2 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

I know reading comprehension isn’t your strength, but “lacks” does not mean “don’t have anyone”

this is so funny, man. diverting to some stupid debate about dictionary definitions is entirely beside the point here but absence, not just deficiency, is a very common and widely accepted use of the word "lack." trying to grandstand on "reading comprehension" and then being that wrong is awesome lmao, but i'll just move on because it doesn't matter.

what does matter is the obvious point that we do have a couple of guys in chig and tyjae who are plus-plus athletes for their position and good YAC guys, but we do very little to intentionally get the ball in their hands on high-percentage passing plays. we've used chig primarily as a downfield guy, which is fine, but the only thing we ever do in the short game with him is run a screen or two, when we should be running designed rollouts getting him into the flat, etc. we've done it a time or two this year and it's worked, but it's not something we've stuck with at all. tyjae meanwhile is used for checkdowns and some nice designed 3rd down type plays (which are good!) but we basically never do stuff like throw hot to him when we're blitzed- though, frankly, we don't seem to throw hot to anyone, which has been another consistent problem with this offense- we don't seem to have any blitz beaters, which is incredible. and finally, chris moore has shown a consistent ability to get open on speed outs and RPOs, which we did a nice job of in the first half against the panthers and proceeded to never touch again before or after. there's always things we can do- our personnel is bad but there are teams out there doing more with bad personnel. the colts' pass catchers aren't much better than ours, but they do a nice job of manufacturing quick game with guys who aren't especially good separators either.

[TitanRedd]

12 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

His first OC choice was Ryan day 

his following OC choices got HC jobs

Nothing you say is ever reflected in reality 

Dude listen to yourself you literally trying to make an argument about who he tried to hire but didn’t hire & then want to tell me about reality. Again your argument is using a hypothetical to justify his actual OC hires made in reality. Again he’s your cup of tea enjoy I ain’t mad at you #tupac voice 

Edited December 18, 2023 by TitanRedd

[deeluxx3]

Just now, TitanRedd said:

Dude listen to yourself you literally trying to make an argument about who he tried to hire but didn’t hire & then want to tell me about reality. Again your argument is using a hypothetical to justify his actual OC hires made in reality. Again he’s your cup of tea enjoy I ain’t mad at you #tupac voice 

I’m not making any hypotheticals

you said he isn’t an innovator when it comes to coaching 

at the time, Day was considered an offensive genius. He tried to hire him. Innovative.

LeFleur and smith got HC jobs. OCs who get HC jobs are considered innovative. 
 

I think there’s plenty about vrabel to criticize, especially this year. But at least make a point that is actually a reflection of what he’s done. 

[deeluxx3]

9 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

this is so funny, man. diverting to some stupid debate about dictionary definitions is entirely beside the point here but absence, not just deficiency, is a very common and widely accepted use of the word "lack." trying to grandstand on "reading comprehension" and then being that wrong is awesome lmao, but i'll just move on because it doesn't matter.

what does matter is the obvious point that we do have a couple of guys in chig and tyjae who are plus-plus athletes for their position and good YAC guys, but we do very little to intentionally get the ball in their hands on high-percentage passing plays. we've used chig primarily as a downfield guy, which is fine, but the only thing we ever do in the short game with him is run a screen or two, when we should be running designed rollouts getting him into the flat, etc. we've done it a time or two this year and it's worked, but it's not something we've stuck with at all. tyjae meanwhile is used for checkdowns and some nice designed 3rd down type plays (which are good!) but we basically never do stuff like throw hot to him when we're blitzed- though, frankly, we don't seem to throw hot to anyone, which has been another consistent problem with this offense- we don't seem to have any blitz beaters, which is incredible. and finally, chris moore has shown a consistent ability to get open on speed outs and RPOs, which we did a nice job of in the first half against the panthers and proceeded to never touch again before or after. there's always things we can do- our personnel is bad but there are teams out there doing more with bad personnel. the colts' pass catchers aren't much better than ours, but they do a nice job of manufacturing quick game with guys who aren't especially good separators either.

chig as a rookie was near the top of rookie TEs in touches/yards. He’s sucked this year but we’ve tried to get him the ball and he hasn’t done anything until recently 

spears as a rookie is near the top of rookie RBs in touches/yards

can we criticize situations where both could’ve used more looks? Sure. But it’s not like either are being ignored in the grand scheme of our offense over the course of a season.