The Mike Vrabel thread (+ coaching staff)

[Dr.Doom52]

Not sure who asked yesterday but they asked  what would you would you want them with the players we have...my answer to that is simply, something different. What we are doing isn't working with the players we have so why be so stubborn to think we have to keep doing it. As we all know that is the definition of insanity, doing the same thing and expecting different results. 

Myself and a few others have made suggestions, and maybe they won't be any more successful...but maybe they will. If everyone on this forum knows what we are doing each play...think how the guys that are elite at breaking this stuff down are able to key in on our tendencies. 

I know I keep beating this drum but the pro Vrabel guys keep saying what is he supposed to do without all of the talent we had 3-4 years ago...I say what could someone else with an offensive vision have done with all of that talent. My guess they would do just as well. Vrabel took over a team that won a wildcard game and lost in the Divisional round...Vrabels best year he just got us one game further. He is a good coach, but I think you need to find a great coach to get over the hump...just like QB's. 

[twotonebluenation]

 

!!!

Imagine what this teams record would be if we even had an average line. Just that alone, to me makes us a playoff team. Thanks Jrob!

Coaching isn’t moving the needle on this god awful offense. We are who we are.

Edited December 18, 2023 by twotonebluenation

[TitanRedd]

2 minutes ago, Dr.Doom52 said:

Not sure who asked yesterday but they asked  what would you would you want them with the players we have...my answer to that is simply, something different. What we are doing isn't working with the players we have so why be so stubborn to think we have to keep doing it. As we all know that is the definition of insanity, doing the same thing and expecting different results. 

Myself and a few others have made suggestions, and maybe they won't be any more successful...but maybe they will. If everyone on this forum knows what we are doing each play...think how the guys that are elite at breaking this stuff down are able to key in on our tendencies. 

I know I keep beating this drum but the pro Vrabel guys keep saying what is he supposed to do without all of the talent we had 3-4 years ago...I say what could someone else with an offensive vision have done with all of that talent. My guess they would do just as well. Vrabel took over a team that won a wildcard game and lost in the Divisional round...Vrabels best year he just got us one game further. He is a good coach, but I think you need to find a great coach to get over the hump...just like QB's. 

Exactly & that’s why I said he’s in over his head, it’s his way or the highway he has no interest in changing, adjusting, he’s stuck in winning 1 way but he’s not fisher 2.0 a run 1st coach with a bend but don’t break defense that’s a players coach 

[TitanRedd]

14 minutes ago, twotonebluenation said:

 

!!!

Imagine what this teams record would be if we even had an average line. Just that alone, to me makes us a playoff team. Thanks Jrob!

Coaching isn’t moving the needle on this god awful offense. We are who we are.

& if we have the talent like we once had we still wouldn’t get over the hump like we failed to do, why is that ? Because talent can only get you so far it still comes down to X’s & O’s. It’s still a game of chess. You still have to make adjustments not be predictable & conservative & show a willingness to adapt. We can have the 49ers entire roster & vrabel wouldn’t know what to do with it, because he lacks the coaching staff with the mental competence. His defense is bend but don’t break his offense is run the ball be predictable & conservative 

[KingTitan]

24 minutes ago, twotonebluenation said:

 

!!!

Imagine what this teams record would be if we even had an average line. Just that alone, to me makes us a playoff team. Thanks Jrob!

Coaching isn’t moving the needle on this god awful offense. We are who we are.

I firmly believe if we had a Dennis Kelly level LT. A Janoris Jenkins level CB.  We'd be firmly in the playoff hunt if not tied for division lead. 
I think it's that small of a margin from winning those one score games. It doesn't make us contenders. It makes us a team able to be just good enough. Which is what the Colts are. The Texans are. Along with the half dozen 7-6 teams in the AFC. 

That happens and nobody is wanting Vrabel fired. 
I think it goes back to a statement made a while ago.  

Boring, run up the middle football is acceptable when you win, but when you lose, it's horrific. You can't continually lose playing boring football. 

[twotonebluenation]

1 minute ago, TitanRedd said:

& if we have the talent like we once had we still wouldn’t get over the hump like we failed to do, why is that ? Because talent can only get you so far it still comes down to X’s & O’s. It’s still a game of chess. You still have to make adjustments not be predictable & conservative & show a willingness to adapt. We can have the 49ers entire roster & vrabel wouldn’t know what to do with it, because he lacks the coaching staff with the mental competence. His defense is bend but don’t break his offense is run the ball be predictable & conservative 

I live in the middle here, so I am not really arguing either way. I just know my concerns start with personnel way before they start with Vrabel. I am not absolving Vrabel of everything. You could absolutely be right about Vrabel, but my opinion is he hasn’t had the QB to match the talent on the roster to get his chance. I believe he may have the qb now, but we need to give the qb the tools. Will that ever align? We will see if Ran and Vrabel collaboration makes that happen.

You could absolutely be right about his nature to being too conservative. I have concerns there as well. But I truly believe these rosters have him thinking twice about how he can call these games because they are so bad. I think he does a good enough job defensively and a players coach, if we match an offense with it we can make it happen, but I need to see it before I rule it out. Tannehill just couldn’t be the guy in the playoffs, maybe Will can be that guy in the playoffs?

My worry is too, be careful about wanting a change and things don’t turn out well. How does that affect Levis? Possibly having multiple coaches in key development stages of his career? 

Due to the absolute mess of the situation Jrob left us, I believe Vrabel gets one more year to right the ship. Especially because we have all this cap space, solid draft picks, and a young qb that’s gone through a second off season.

 

[KingTitan]

2 minutes ago, twotonebluenation said:

I live in the middle here, so I am not really arguing either way. I just know my concerns start with personnel way before they start with Vrabel. I am not absolving Vrabel of everything. You could absolutely be right about Vrabel, but my opinion is he hasn’t had the QB to match the talent on the roster to get his chance. I believe he may have the qb now, but we need to give the qb the tools. Will that ever align? We will see if Ran and Vrabel collaboration makes that happen.

You could absolutely be right about his nature to being too conservative. I have concerns there as well. But I truly believe these rosters have him thinking twice about how he can call these games because they are so bad. I think he does a good enough job defensively and a players coach, if we match an offense with it we can make it happen, but I need to see it before I rule it out. Tannehill just couldn’t be the guy in the playoffs, maybe Will can be that guy in the playoffs?

My worry is too, be careful about wanting a change and things don’t turn out well. How does that affect Levis? Possibly having multiple coaches in key development stages of his career? 

Due to the absolute mess of the situation Jrob left us, I believe Vrabel gets one more year to right the ship. Especially because we have all this cap space, solid draft picks, and a young qb that’s gone through a second off season.

 

To me, its like Henry.

If we move on, I understand. If we keep him. I understand. 
I'm not calling for Vrabel to be fired, but if I woke up tomorrow and saw we parted ways, I'd understand be ok. 

My only concern is making Levis successful. If he turns into a MVP great. If he turns into Matt Stafford/Jared Goff fine. 

As long as we don't fail him and have years of Marcus Mariota level success. Good enough to keep him, Not bad enough to move on. 

[TitanRedd]

9 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

I firmly believe if we had a Dennis Kelly level LT. A Janoris Jenkins level CB.  We'd be firmly in the playoff hunt if not tied for division lead. 
I think it's that small of a margin from winning those one score games. It doesn't make us contenders. It makes us a team able to be just good enough. Which is what the Colts are. The Texans are. Along with the half dozen 7-6 teams in the AFC. 

That happens and nobody is wanting Vrabel fired. 
I think it goes back to a statement made a while ago.  

Boring, run up the middle football is acceptable when you win, but when you lose, it's horrific. You can't continually lose playing boring football. 

Speak for yourself I been calling for him to be fired. Even if we were winning. I said it numerous of times makes no sense to be good but not good enough to get over the hump. I’m tired of being in the way. I’m tired of being a fan with nothing to brag on but a RB rushing for 2k yards & a bunch of AFC south champs. It’s SB or bust with me. I been saying we need a change in philosophy, to move on from Henry & RT, while they had value & that vrabel needs to go if he’s committed to winning 1 way. Again I’ve seen this episode with Jeff fisher it’s the same blue print, run a primer RB into the ground. Stubborn to playing 1 style of football. We won’t win a SB being content with mediocrity doing the same ole thing this isn’t the 80’s &. 90’s we’re 80% of the league was run dominant. 

[deeluxx3]

I'm prob kissing the staff's butt more than I should be today, and Rupcich has played exactly 1 game of mediocre football. But I know our OL staff has gotten a lot of flack for "not developing" anyone and I'm not sure how fair of a criticism that is.

In terms of what they've had to work w/....

Wilson was never willing to play

Radunz is bad but starting to play better at RT. Wouldn't be surprised if he's penciled in as starting RT next season.

UDFA Brewer is legit good in run blocking. Horrible in pass pro but at his size he can only do so much. Shouldn't be a starter, but I'd argue that our coaching staff has groomed him into a satisfactory spot starter and interior OL backup.

Rupcich is in line to make his second consecutive start, Throckmorton being inactive is a big sign. That doesn't mean he's been developed at all and I don't expect anything of him beyond this season, but a D3 guy is worth playing in coaches eyes over Throck and Brunskill (noting that Brunskill is banged up)

NPF had his ups and downs last year. He looked like a rookie, but a third round pick that had us mostly intrigued prior to his suspension.

Daley/Dillard both terrible who did not improve at all as their seasons progressed. How much can be blamed on coaching is unknown...but neither have been good w/ any other staff.

 

None of the above really means anything or validates our OL coaching staff. But it's not like they've been handed high-rated talent and had it blow up in our faces. Many of these guys are JRob selections, and his ability to evalute OL talent was also largely terrible.

 

[KingTitan]

27 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

I'm prob kissing the staff's butt more than I should be today, and Rupcich has played exactly 1 game of mediocre football. But I know our OL staff has gotten a lot of flack for "not developing" anyone and I'm not sure how fair of a criticism that is.

In terms of what they've had to work w/....

Wilson was never willing to play

Radunz is bad but starting to play better at RT. Wouldn't be surprised if he's penciled in as starting RT next season.

UDFA Brewer is legit good in run blocking. Horrible in pass pro but at his size he can only do so much. Shouldn't be a starter, but I'd argue that our coaching staff has groomed him into a satisfactory spot starter and interior OL backup.

Rupcich is in line to make his second consecutive start, Throckmorton being inactive is a big sign. That doesn't mean he's been developed at all and I don't expect anything of him beyond this season, but a D3 guy is worth playing in coaches eyes over Throck and Brunskill (noting that Brunskill is banged up)

NPF had his ups and downs last year. He looked like a rookie, but a third round pick that had us mostly intrigued prior to his suspension.

Daley/Dillard both terrible who did not improve at all as their seasons progressed. How much can be blamed on coaching is unknown...but neither have been good w/ any other staff.

 

None of the above really means anything or validates our OL coaching staff. But it's not like they've been handed high-rated talent and had it blow up in our faces. Many of these guys are JRob selections, and his ability to evalute OL talent was also largely terrible.

 

That was my post a week or two ago. Outside of Radunz being the real disappointment based on draft spot, where else have we just ruined a guy? 

NPF was likely gonna be RT but suspended, then injured. Waste of a year. And year 2 is when you see a OL really get comfortable. 

But UDFA in Brewer. You pointed out his strength and you got meaningful play from an UDFA. 

Dillard was a miss but it was a hope that he could be something here. We had limited funds this offseason and we went with a cheap starter and missed. Like you said wasn't good in Philly. 

I'm not concerned about the coaching. I'm more concerned about who is identifying the guys. Hopefully Ran and his staff are able to pick better players. 

Robinson threw players and resources at the position. Picked poorly in Wilson and Radunz. 

Did well with Ben Jones, Dennis Kelly, Saffold, Nate Davis, Jack Conklin. 

Coaching isn't terrible but it's been a bad run. 

[deeluxx3]

I'm acknowledging that LaCanfora is a joke and Chad Forbes is not known for being an insider. Also noting that local media hasn't alluded to anything, although top to bottom it's not a very strong batch of reporters/insiders.

 

It's just been basically a whole year of this rumor mill about Vrabel wanting out, Vrabel and Carthon not being on the same page, bla bla bla. It's gotten old and, while losing exacerbates it, not worth it.

The "total control" thing doesn't work. No HC warrants total control and if Vrabel is truly seeking that, then it may truly be time to move on. I think he's an excellent and great HC, but the total control thing blows up in team's faces.

All in all, I think something's awry with the organization right now. Winning cures all, and I think we're a good offseason of acquisitions and growth from Levis away from competing again. But it's just been BS after BS all season.

[-Hope-]

every piece of smoke we've heard has come entirely from guys in patriots-land and comes off as nothing but wishcasting. i'm ambivalent about vrabel staying or going but none of this holds any amount of purchase with me whatsoever. just the other day you had michael lombardi, another guy who spent time with the patriots, delivering an obviously false report that vrabel's contract was up this year and then having to walk it back. these dudes are clowns.

[KingTitan]

I don't even care. If Vrabel truly wants to go then go. 

I don't believe the rumors but just speaking on them I don't care. 

At this moment, I choose Ran over Vrabel. We know what Vrabel will produce. I want to see Ran's vision. And if it looks anything like the Niners or Super Bowl Falcons then so be it.

I can't imagine what is so bad about working with Ran. Especially if Vrabel has all the so called power. 

[TitanSlim]

I’m still going to need better sources on the Vrabel/Ran stuff besides Patriots based reporters and guys with a bad track records. However, I do think there’s too much noise out there for there not to be a small chance of validity here. Even Jeremy Fowler and Dan Graziano mentioned something about it in their recent week 18 buzz article.

And if there’s even an ounce of validity to Vrabel being unhappy and wanting more control, then he’s got to go. He’s a good coach but whenever a coach begins to want to have front office power, it’s pretty much a death sentence for the team. All you have to do is look at his former coach he played under (Belichick) and his former coach he coached under (Bill O’Brien). Plus, I feel Ran has the right to mold the team into how he sees fit.

[TitanSlim]

This is what I was just talking about in my above post. Where there’s smoke…