The Mike Vrabel thread (+ coaching staff)

[TitanRedd]

1 hour ago, TitanLegend said:

We ran a train on both Kansas City and LA that year. Vrabel has shown he has a pretty good grasp on how to slow Kansas City down, and the ability to get pressure with 4 and drop 7 is what really gets KC to struggle, and our front was playing other worldly over that stretch. The one issue going forward in that playoff run would have been Tannehill imploding in a different game.

And it's just a sad state of affairs that we were so close and the rug was pulled. 2021 season will always bother me, and would suck knowing how close we were and then just blew it all up, starting with that one move, if this stuff comes true.

You’re not quite telling it how it is. 1st of all my guy that defensive game plan was Deen Pees; & what vrabel do, ran the man off into retirement because he’s a control freak with an ego. How does vrabel learn from that Hire his buddy’s a DC with no experience & OC that was a loser his last stint ruining a franchise QB at 1 time in carr, all of this in a SB window. As for Tanniehill costing us AFC championship against KC, I’ll forever put that blame on Art & vrabel. We were up by 10 & they went & got too conservative constantly trying to force the run, because up until that point we ran through our opponents. They didn’t put the ball in RT hand till we were down, & expected him to win us a game on his skillset. They knew he was a game manager you don’t put a game manager in that type of situation that’s coaching

[TitanLegend]

1 minute ago, TitanRedd said:

Be realistic you’re not getting a 1st rd pick for vrabel he’s a subpar 500 coach that hasn’t won sh!t but a couple AFC south division titles. Give us a 3rd I’ll gladly accept if I’m the titans 

I don't know if he'd get a first, but your opinion of Vrabel does not line up with the NFL's opinion of him based off various sources. Every game just abut the announcers talk about how highly respected he is in NFL front office circles, players have voted him as a coach they'd most want to play for, etc.

You can argue if that opinion of him is wrong or not, but there's no questioning how well he's liked league wide.

[TitanLegend]

Just now, TitanRedd said:

You’re not quite telling it how it is. 1st of all my guy that defensive game plan was Deen Pees; & what vrabel do, ran the man off into retirement because he’s a control freak with an ego. How does vrabel learn from that Hire his buddy’s a DC with no experience & OC that was a loser his last stint ruining a franchise QB at 1 time in carr, all of this in a SB window. As for Tanniehill costing us AFC championship against KC, I’ll forever put that blame on Art & vrabel. We were up by 10 & they went & got too conservative constantly trying to force the run, because up until that point we ran through our opponents. They didn’t put the ball in RT hand till we were down, & expected him to win us a game on his skillset. They knew he was a game manager you don’t put a game manager in that type of situation that’s coaching

Dean Pees? 2021 was Vrabel/BowenSchwartz, not Dean Pees.

You're thinking of 2019. And after like the first quarter of that AFC title game we didn't do much of anything to slow down the Chiefs. Tannehill also didn't implode in that game. Wasn't great, but wasn't the 3 interception nonsense he was vs the Bengals.

[TitanRedd]

1 minute ago, TitanLegend said:

Dean Pees? 2021 was Vrabel/BowenSchwartz, not Dean Pees.

You're thinking of 2019. And after like the first quarter of that AFC title game we didn't do much of anything to slow down the Chiefs. Tannehill also didn't implode in that game. Wasn't great, but wasn't the 3 interception nonsense he was vs the Bengals.

Gotcha I thought when you mentioned KC you were talking bout the AFC championship not 2021😮‍💨 my bad 

[TitanLegend]

1 minute ago, TitanRedd said:

Gotcha I thought when you mentioned KC you were talking bout the AFC championship not 2021😮‍💨 my bad 

Ah, nah, my mention of KC and LA was referring to us blowing both of them out down the stretch in 2021 and that being my basis for believing if we got past Cinci(and assuming Tannehill doesn't blow it vs them too), we very likely win a ring that year.

Won't ever forget Jon Robinson crying while talking to reporters before the combine or whatever after that season. Think he knew what an opportunity we blew too.

[KingTitan]

40 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

I don't know if he'd get a first, but your opinion of Vrabel does not line up with the NFL's opinion of him based off various sources. Every game just abut the announcers talk about how highly respected he is in NFL front office circles, players have voted him as a coach they'd most want to play for, etc.

You can argue if that opinion of him is wrong or not, but there's no questioning how well he's liked league wide.

Naw. The conversation starts at a first round pick.

If it's not a first round pick then there isn't anything to talk about. 

[TitanRedd]

2 hours ago, KingTitan said:

Naw. The conversation starts at a first round pick.

If it's not a first round pick then there isn't anything to talk about. 

Good luck he can go for a 3rd I don’t see anyone giving us a 1st for a HC that hasn’t won anything, I’m be realistic, when you can hire the hottest  OC or DC saving you draft capital.. keep hope alive 

[deeluxx3]

18 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

Good luck he can go for a 3rd I don’t see anyone giving us a 1st for a HC that hasn’t won anything, I’m be realistic, when you can hire the hottest  OC or DC saving you draft capital.. keep hope alive 

if we're offered a 3rd for Vrabel, we hang up the phone and laugh

In 2002 Jon Gruden cost the Bucs their 02/03 first rounders, 02/04 second rounders and 8M in cash. He hadn't won anything prior to then.

 

If we trade Vrabel, it's for a haul.

[TitanRedd]

Teams value draft capital, usually teams that trade a kings Randsom or premium pick for a HC are teams that feel they’re a HC away from being a contender, with a roster ready to win. What franchise y’all see out there is built to win, a contender but needs a HC 🤔 okay now ask why would trade a 1st rd pick when you can keep your draft capital & go hire an up incoming coordinator you feel is ready to be a HC. 

[deeluxx3]

11 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

Teams value draft capital, usually teams that trade a kings Randsom or premium pick for a HC are teams that feel they’re a HC away from being a contender, with a roster ready to win. What franchise y’all see out there is built to win, a contender but needs a HC 🤔 okay now ask why would trade a 1st rd pick when you can keep your draft capital & go hire an up incoming coordinator you feel is ready to be a HC. 

I think the point moreso is, coaches are gonna cost more than a 3rd. Kinda just is what it is. Gruden went for a huge haul 20 years ago...that doesn't diminish to a 3rd over time.

[KingTitan]

4 hours ago, deeluxx3 said:

if we're offered a 3rd for Vrabel, we hang up the phone and laugh

In 2002 Jon Gruden cost the Bucs their 02/03 first rounders, 02/04 second rounders and 8M in cash. He hadn't won anything prior to then.

 

If we trade Vrabel, it's for a haul.

Yeap. If someone is just talking about 3rd. Then we just have a hostile environment with Vrabel and Ran. 

[TitanLegend]

5 hours ago, TitanRedd said:

Teams value draft capital, usually teams that trade a kings Randsom or premium pick for a HC are teams that feel they’re a HC away from being a contender, with a roster ready to win. What franchise y’all see out there is built to win, a contender but needs a HC 🤔 okay now ask why would trade a 1st rd pick when you can keep your draft capital & go hire an up incoming coordinator you feel is ready to be a HC. 

Again, draft capital they'd(whoever) give up for him is debatable, but looking at someone like Sean Payton just this past off season, he got New Orleans a 1st and 2nd(2023 and 2024 respectively) though they also sent a 3rd round pick with him.

Payton does have a ring to his name, but he won it 13 years prior to that trade occurring and never even appeared in another super bowl over those 13 years(well, only 12 seasons as he sat out 22) despite the fact that he had a hall of fame QB playing for him in most of those years.

I don't know that winning a super bowl over a decade prior is somehow so valuable that it turns Payton from just a 3rd round pick type coach(given his track record since that super bowl would be relatively similar to Vrabel's) to a guy worth a first and a 2nd in exchange for just a 3rd alongside him.

[twotonebluenation]

A third for Mike Vrabel? Na. That makes no sense. He will be back. I trust Teresa that this is all nonsense that Boston media is drumming up.

 

[deeluxx3]

 

[deeluxx3]

1 hour ago, deeluxx3 said:

 

Not to cherry pick one stat, but this is the kind of actual data that makes me question the whole "Vrabel's offense" narrative.

Reality is this -- 99% of teams need to run the ball in some sort of capacity to be able to win games. Have we, in the Vrabel era, overly committed to the run in certain moments/games? Absolutely. Has Henry's mere presence caused us to obsess over running the ball more than we probably should have? Absolutely.

But in the Vrabel era, what has been our alternative? What QB or WR have we done a massive disservice to by not putting the ball in their hands more often?

Thru our best OL days (thus our most productive offenses), fact is we were limited by Tannehill. He never showed any sort of consistent ability to drop back and pick apart defenses when opposing defenses turned us one dimensional. The KC AFCCG and Baltimore WC game come to mind. Those teams sold out to stop Henry and won the game because of it. We couldn't get it done thru the air.

Move into our "bad" OL days, specifically the past 2 years. Whether it was with Downing or Kelly or a magical wizard OC that doesn't exist, how could we have been anything OTHER than balanced/lean toward the run? In Tanny we had a QB who couldn't succeed w/o PA and behind a sieve of an OL w/o any real WRs. Same thing this year with Tanny and Levis (who I think will develop into a great drop back passer, this year he just had no chance).

I will say that in 2021, our #1 seed year, it became evident that AJ was the best player on our O and our O lived and died by him (given we didn't miss a beat w/ Foreman/Hilliard taking over for Henry when he got hurt). But I'd argue that we still even gave AJ enough chances to be a huge part of our O within the grand scheme of the league (believe he was about 16 in targets per game among WR. Suppose that ranking should be higher, but he was 1 of 13 WRs w/ 8-9 target average a game). When we had an elite WR, we worked to get him the ball in an offense/personnel that warranted balance. 

Situational playcalling can always be better. But if we go back and watch this season again, I'd bet that there are as many big plays left on the field that weren't made due to poor execution as there were objectively bad playcalls by Kelly.

I think Vrabel and our offensive coaching staff over the years have largely played to the team's strengths. Downing was a horrific and season-altering hire, yes. But overall I think we've done a good job of trying to get the ball to our best players, but our O has been so limited by the OL/WRs the last 2 seasons that it's no wonder we've been stuck in the mud. I don't think any coach could've succeeded with what we've had to work with.