The Mike Vrabel thread (+ coaching staff)

[twotonebluenation]

Still think keeping Vrabel is the move. Deep down in my heart with the right guys, I think he can be a beast of a coach against the best in the playoffs. Give him a solid stack of talent that some of the rest of these “amazing” coaches have around the league. I still believe he would cook. 

[TitanLegend]

Maybe Mike can bring Art home.

[lovetitans]

Just now, TitanLegend said:

Maybe Mike can bring Art home.

No thank you. Really think most of his success was due to having a pretty stacked roster on offense (by our standards) Tannehill's best years, Henry's best years, AJ Brown, Corey Davis, Jonnu Smith,  and one of the better O-lines in the league as well.  

[TitanLegend]

3 minutes ago, lovetitans said:

No thank you. Really think most of his success was due to having a pretty stacked roster on offense (by our standards) Tannehill's best years, Henry's best years, AJ Brown, Corey Davis, Jonnu Smith,  and one of the better O-lines in the league as well.  

There's very little difference in roster between LaFleur's season(not nearly as good) and Downing's season(much worse) that Art is sandwiched between.

Art's system is one of the best in the league, just needs(like every other system in football, see how much even Kyle Shanahan struggles without a QB) a QB. If Levis is that guy, we'll pretty quickly be back towards the top of the league offensively with Art.

[TitanRedd]

Y’all don’t make sense y’all won’t take a 3rd for him but it sounds like if vrabel is out it’ll come via trade or we’ll mutual part ways. I rather get something for him Vs losing him for nothing, & I doubt amy will make him stay & honor his contract if he wants out. 
now I would gladly accept NE trading pick 3 & we give ‘em pick 7 for vrabel 🗣MHJ dream lives on 

[-Hope-]

35 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

There's very little difference in roster between LaFleur's season(not nearly as good) and Downing's season(much worse) that Art is sandwiched between.

Art's system is one of the best in the league, just needs(like every other system in football, see how much even Kyle Shanahan struggles without a QB) a QB. If Levis is that guy, we'll pretty quickly be back towards the top of the league offensively with Art.

lafleur had mariota with no feeling in his throwing hand, no rodger saffold, and no AJ brown lmao how on earth is that 'very little difference'

[615finest]

Art will be some type of offensive assistant on this team if vrabel is still the HC. Maybe a role like Schwartz had

i believe he coached oline at one point too

[TitanLegend]

1 minute ago, -Hope- said:

lafleur had mariota with no feeling in his throwing hand, no rodger saffold, and no AJ brown lmao how on earth is that 'very little difference'

No going to lie, completely forgot AJ got here the year after Matt, screwed up my timeline.

That being said, as we're seeing in Green Bay, AJ Brown doesn't ultimately matter as much. QB does. Jordan Love doesn't have anything close to an AJ Brown in Green Bay, but their offense still runs pretty smooth, and it's been really good since Love hit his stride.

The Mariota aspect plays in to the point I made about Art/is my overall point. QB is what matters. Kyle Shanahan's record is worse than Art's when he doesn't have Jimmy G or Purdy starting. 15-34 for him in those games. Art just went 21-30 starting Mariota, Ridder and Hienicke or however it's spelled.

[-Hope-]

1 minute ago, TitanLegend said:

No going to lie, completely forgot AJ got here the year after Matt, screwed up my timeline.

That being said, as we're seeing in Green Bay, AJ Brown doesn't ultimately matter as much. QB does. Jordan Love doesn't have anything close to an AJ Brown in Green Bay, but their offense still runs pretty smooth, and it's been really good since Love hit his stride.

The Mariota aspect plays in to the point I made about Art/is my overall point. QB is what matters. Kyle Shanahan's record is worse than Art's when he doesn't have Jimmy G or Purdy starting. 15-34 for him in those games. Art just went 21-30 starting Mariota, Ridder and Hienicke or however it's spelled.

of course having a QB is important, that's just a truism. but it feels contradictory to call art's system one of the best in football and then compare him favorably to lafleur, who had less to work with at QB and elsewhere. the reality is art knew he had a HOF RB and an elite left side of the OL and spent his days spamming outside zone like it was going out of style. numerous players have come out and said that there were long stretches of games where they essentially ran the same couple of running plays, threw in a PA bang, and marched up and down the field doing that. and hell, you can watch any highlight reel from those two years and it's plain to see. art ran a version of the shanahan system that was significantly less diverse than shanahan's himself- because it didn't need to be. he deserves credit for realizing that and sticking with what worked, but he was working with a pretty stacked deck, and there's very little reason to believe the offense would jump back into the top 5 if he were to take over with this OL and WR room.

i see no reason to make will levis learn his 4th offensive system in 4 consecutive years unless it's necessitated by a wholesale coaching regime change. tim kelly did a fine job under horrendous circumstances, and i think he deserves a shot calling plays with an nfl-caliber offensive line. i would welcome art back as an offensive assistant- hell, he has a history as an OL coach and might do a better job than our current FCS boy wonder- but i think it would be silly to try to run it back with him and recapture the glory days at this moment.

[TitanLegend]

6 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

of course having a QB is important, that's just a truism. but it feels contradictory to call art's system one of the best in football and then compare him favorably to lafleur, who had less to work with at QB and elsewhere. the reality is art knew he had a HOF RB and an elite left side of the OL and spent his days spamming outside zone like it was going out of style. numerous players have come out and said that there were long stretches of games where they essentially ran the same couple of running plays, threw in a PA bang, and marched up and down the field doing that. and hell, you can watch any highlight reel from those two years and it's plain to see. art ran a version of the shanahan system that was significantly less diverse than shanahan's himself- because it didn't need to be. he deserves credit for realizing that and sticking with what worked, but he was working with a pretty stacked deck, and there's very little reason to believe the offense would jump back into the top 5 if he were to take over with this OL and WR room.

i see no reason to make will levis learn his 4th offensive system in 4 consecutive years unless it's necessitated by a wholesale coaching regime change. tim kelly did a fine job under horrendous circumstances, and i think he deserves a shot calling plays with an nfl-caliber offensive line. i would welcome art back as an offensive assistant- hell, he has a history as an OL coach and might do a better job than our current FCS boy wonder- but i think it would be silly to try to run it back with him and recapture the glory days at this moment.

It's not me trying to make things unfair for LaFleur, I like him a lot, just like Art, one of the best offensive minds in football. And we see what Art did with Mariota the first 6 games of 2019. We scored 16.3 points per game. 11 points per game after week 1, a game we scored 43 against the Browns in.

That "elite left side of the offensive line, AJ Brown and Corey Davis, elite Derrick Henry" meant absolutely nothing to start that season.

Nothing matters anywhere, ever, unless you have a competent QB.

I don't know off the top of my head how many different plays Art ran a game. What I do know, though? Is with competent QB play, he put together one of the most efficient stretches of offensive play in recent NFL history after Tannehill took over.

It ain't like we went from Mariota to Brady or Mahomes, we just went from a dumpster fire to competent.

I dunno if asking Levis to learn a new system is a good thing, but passing up the on the man who put together such an absurd stretch of offensive play feels like a less than ideal move. I won't hate running it back with Kelly, but it's hard to stomach passing on someone like Art, if he did want to come back.

[TitanRedd]

30 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

No going to lie, completely forgot AJ got here the year after Matt, screwed up my timeline.

That being said, as we're seeing in Green Bay, AJ Brown doesn't ultimately matter as much. QB does. Jordan Love doesn't have anything close to an AJ Brown in Green Bay, but their offense still runs pretty smooth, and it's been really good since Love hit his stride.

The Mariota aspect plays in to the point I made about Art/is my overall point. QB is what matters. Kyle Shanahan's record is worse than Art's when he doesn't have Jimmy G or Purdy starting. 15-34 for him in those games. Art just went 21-30 starting Mariota, Ridder and Hienicke or however it's spelled.

I’ll pass on Art he has a good system if you’re trying to be a run 1st team, a lot of 12 personnel, play action love using his WR’s on in breaking routes. We no longer have the OL to pull that off nor a dominant RB. I want someone that’s going to help Levi’s reach his potential not limit him. He needs someone like a McVay a Andy Reid 

[TitanRedd]

Jordan love is going to be special GB got them another QB for the next decade, I got a feeling him & Watson gone set records next yr. 

[-Hope-]

2 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

It's not me trying to make things unfair for LaFleur, I like him a lot, just like Art, one of the best offensive minds in football. And we see what Art did with Mariota the first 6 games of 2019. We scored 16.3 points per game. 11 points per game after week 1, a game we scored 43 against the Browns in.

That "elite left side of the offensive line, AJ Brown and Corey Davis, elite Derrick Henry" meant absolutely nothing to start that season.

Nothing matters anywhere, ever, unless you have a competent QB.

I don't know off the top of my head how many different plays Art ran a game. What I do know, though? Is with competent QB play, he put together one of the most efficient stretches of offensive play in recent NFL history after Tannehill took over.

It ain't like we went from Mariota to Brady or Mahomes, we just went from a dumpster fire to competent.

I dunno if asking Levis to learn a new system is a good thing, but passing up the on the man who put together such an absurd stretch of offensive play feels like a less than ideal move. I won't hate running it back with Kelly, but it's hard to stomach passing on someone like Art, if he did want to come back.

this is not a response to what i'm saying. i've acknowledged that you need a competent QB for things to work; that's not up for debate. but on the flipside, things aren't going to work if you have a competent QB and nothing else- look at the best QB and playcaller combination in the entire league down in KC looking utterly pedestrian this year if you need evidence of that. meanwhile, the 'something else' that art had alongside a solid QB in tannehill rivaled any team in the entire league from 2019-2020. that's a far, far cry from what he'd be working with if he were to take over this offense in 2024.

[TitanLegend]

2 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

this is not a response to what i'm saying. i've acknowledged that you need a competent QB for things to work; that's not up for debate. but on the flipside, things aren't going to work if you have a competent QB and nothing else- look at the best QB and playcaller combination in the entire league down in KC looking utterly pedestrian this year if you need evidence of that. meanwhile, the 'something else' that art had alongside a solid QB in tannehill rivaled any team in the entire league from 2019-2020. that's a far, far cry from what he'd be working with if he were to take over this offense in 2024.

The Chiefs, even with no receivers and a seemingly slumping offensive line, were 12th in scoring offense heading in to today. Won't count today since Gabbert played(also too lazy to look up how much they scored lol). Not what we've come to expect from the Chiefs obviously, but still decent despite the issues.

We're gonna have 90-100m in cap space in a year that should have a loaded FA WR class and have a relatively premium draft position for a seemingly good o-line draft class. Can we match the skill position talent the 19/20 rosters had? I wouldn't say that, due to needing the o-line to develop together. Can we get some good weapons to pair with DHop and turn to Spears as the #1 back and be good in that regard? Sure. If Levis is what we hope he is, there's potential for a pretty good offense there.

Hopefully Kelly is capable of that turn around too if thats who we stick with.

[TitanRedd]

9 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

this is not a response to what i'm saying. i've acknowledged that you need a competent QB for things to work; that's not up for debate. but on the flipside, things aren't going to work if you have a competent QB and nothing else- look at the best QB and playcaller combination in the entire league down in KC looking utterly pedestrian this year if you need evidence of that. meanwhile, the 'something else' that art had alongside a solid QB in tannehill rivaled any team in the entire league from 2019-2020. that's a far, far cry from what he'd be working with if he were to take over this offense in 2024.

Say it again