The Mike Vrabel thread (+ coaching staff)

[TitanRedd]

38 minutes ago, twotonebluenation said:

Do you BELIEVE in Vrabel is he changes his ways and does this?

I want to honestly because I want to see us win a SB desperately, but I’m keep saying this he’s in over his head, no doubt J Rob deserves I’d say 55% of the blame, but vrabel just don’t get it because of his ego & he’s full of himself. I listened to a lot of the players podcast & their opinions of him as a coach, he’s definitely a players coach an a$$hole, but I get the feeling vrabel wants coaches he can keep in check that will do things his way & wont challenge him. I don’t understand why he didn’t make Russ Grim an offer & let him walk, why not get a proven DC someone with a resume up to par with pees, when we’re literally in SB contention. Why not go get us OC that shown success someone that can evolve the passing game more than what art did, instead of a past failure in downing. He kept hiring his loser Texans coach assistants on our staff as if, they didn’t coach 1 of the worst Defenses when he was a DC in Hou his only season. I said many times RT was good enough for us to win a SB as a game manager. I’m just over vrabel I don’t see Levis reaching his full potential under him. Right now I think Levi’s floor is Tanniehill best season as a titan, but I’m starting to see his ceiling as Ben Rothlisburger. The kid is growing on me every game. He doesn’t flinch he has that it factor about him. He just need the right coach 

[TitanLegend]

2 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

I’m so done with explaining myself & going back N forth with my opinion & takes.
Let’s just agree to disagree, because everything you just said I’ve literally went in-depth & broke everything down as to why I said many times, he’s fisher 2.0 & guess what for the sake of everyone not wanting to see another repost thread or me saying I told you so, or me being told you like to hear yourself talk, & think you know it all,I’m let you have it. Silence is the best answer I’m learning. See now everything I been saying bout the guy is showing every Sunday, & I don’t say sh!t no more but enjoy reading y’all comments & repost. Feel how you feeI, I literally stated over & over the reason vrabel isn’t it, & that listed facts after facts & nobody agree with me, but every single post that went at me or said I was wrong y’all stood in the fire with them.. stay gold pony boy stay gold 

It's football discussion, my friend, we're not discussing the end of the world. There is no "I think you like seeing yourself talk" or "repost thread" comments from me, there is no "standing in the fire" with anyone. It ain't that serious. I've been right about plenty of things regarding football over the years, just as I've been wrong about plenty of things over the years. You taking things so personally, at least things from me, when I've never once come at you with any kind of aggressiveness any time I've been right(nor has there ever been any from you towards me when you've been right, to keep things straight) is a confusing take to me.

And no, you haven't explained "Jeff Fisher 2.0", or at least I've never seen it, outside of a singular "once a good head coach, but not any longer", which makes the statement confusing to me because there's countless NFL coaches in history you could make that comparison with, but drawing a comparison to Fisher(not just a comparison, but calling him Fisher 2.0) makes one think you're trying to compare their styles(both positives and faults)). Which saying both are defensive minded coaches who like physical football is accurate, sure. But that's accurate about pretty much every defensive minded head coach to ever be in this league. Hell, most offensive coaches will tell you they want physical football too for that matter lol.

[TitanRedd]

Just now, TitanLegend said:

It's football discussion, my friend, we're not discussing the end of the world. There is no "I think you like seeing yourself talk" or "repost thread" comments from me, there is no "standing in the fire" with anyone. It ain't that serious. I've been right about plenty of things regarding football over the years, just as I've been wrong about plenty of things over the years. You taking things so personally, at least things from me, when I've never once come at you with any kind of aggressiveness any time I've been right(nor has there ever been any from you towards me when you've been right, to keep things straight) is a confusing take to me.

And no, you haven't explained "Jeff Fisher 2.0", or at least I've never seen it, outside of a singular "once a good head coach, but not any longer", which makes the statement confusing to me because there's countless NFL coaches in history you could make that comparison with, but drawing a comparison to Fisher(not just a comparison, but calling him Fisher 2.0) makes one think you're trying to compare their styles(both positives and faults)). Which saying both are defensive minded coaches who like physical football is accurate, sure. But that's accurate about pretty much every defensive minded head coach to ever be in this league. Hell, most offensive coaches will tell you they want physical football too for that matter lol.

I wasn’t meaning to come off at you like we have a problem or you’re 1 of the 1’s it’s not personal at all, I just know what comes along with me being the odd ball of the forum saying things people don’t agree with.

Fisher 2.0 means they have similar coaching styles & philosophy & that we’ve seen this act before. Fisher was stubborn to his guns, a players coach everyone love & played their a$$ off for, but when it comes down to the X’s & O’s he’s in over his head, incapable of showing the willingness to adapt or change philosophy. Vrabel is a system coach he want players to play within his system. Not build a system towards the strength of his personnel. The guy just doesn’t have it, as we saw when the rams fire fisher with all that talent in hey had & replaced him with McVay they immediately went to the SB. Now no we don’t have that type of talent I’m not stupid but if we did I still don’t believe he would be able to get us over the hump. Because he doesn’t adapt. He knows 1 way to win 

[deeluxx3]

3 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

I wasn’t meaning to come off at you like we have a problem or you’re 1 of the 1’s it’s not personal at all, I just know what comes along with me being the odd ball of the forum saying things people don’t agree with.

Fisher 2.0 means they have similar coaching styles & philosophy & that we’ve seen this act before. Fisher was stubborn to his guns, a players coach everyone love & played their a$$ off for, but when it comes down to the X’s & O’s he’s in over his head, incapable of showing the willingness to adapt or change philosophy. Vrabel is a system coach he want players to play within his system. Not build a system towards the strength of his personnel. The guy just doesn’t have it, as we saw when the rams fire fisher with all that talent in hey had & replaced him with McVay they immediately went to the SB. Now no we don’t have that type of talent I’m not stupid but if we did I still don’t believe he would be able to get us over the hump. Because he doesn’t adapt. He knows 1 way to win 

With the current personnel we have, what philosophical and schematic changes would you make to our offense and defense?

what are we not doing right now schematically that we should be doing and, with the current group of players, realistically could be doing successfully?

isn’t Kelly/London’s desire to push the ball down the field as often as they do a different system/philosophy than previous OCs? (Regardless of its effectiveness) I don’t recall as many attempts to push the ball 25+ yards thru the air with previous OCs. And that’s just one rudimentary viewpoint of our “scheme”

 

im asking these questions seriously. Because everyone’s criticizing the shortcomings of the team and blaming it on coaching, so I’m curious what we should be doing differently other than not running as often as we do on 2nd and long .
 

What strengths are we not building our game plans toward?

[Dr.Doom52]

I'll jump in a little on the Offensive scheme a little since this has been my complaint with the team since AJB left, Lewan-Jones-Saffold-Davis left, CD and Jonnu left...we are still trying to run all of the same concepts. Pound the ball and take 15+ yard shots. We rarely run anything shallow or quick developing, and if we do the QB don't even look for that...the one out of 7 plays we actually put in a shallow route, the guys isn't even guarded but we don't look at him...which make me think we are coached top only look for the downfield play and the other team knows we won't look at the shorter route. It feels like half of the sacks we take all of the WR's have their back turned.

The offense is really my only issue with Vrabel from a HC stand point. You look at other teams and they are adapting to the league and their personnel, Vrabel just won't adjust. He keeps hiring from within because he likes what he is getting. We run all of the same base plays and teams know exactly what we are doing. 

If he would have gone outside and gotten someone else to run the offense I would probably have more patience with him. I also think this is the time to let him go and infuse some hope in the team prior to moving into a new building. Having a defensive minded HC is not great because if we have a good offense they leave to become the HC somewhere else. 

I know we have bad personnel, specifically on the O-line...but we are still trying to run the same thing as when we had 4-6 high end Pro Bowl level players on offense. At some point you have to adjust what you are doing vs saying players have to play better. 

Last thing...I am a Michigan fan and I said from day one, Harbaugh is a good coach but we will never win a Natty because his philosophy is not right for the CFB game. We will be good year in year out but never get over the top. I see the same thing in MV...good coach but will never be willing to adapt to the current personnel or league.

No doubt if we spend tons of money this offseason and have a great draft we can win 10 games...but what could someone with some ingenuity and imagination do? 

[deeluxx3]

Good read from Turron Davenport on RC/Vrabes

 https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39007415/how-titans-mike-vrabel-ran-carthon-navigating-season

[-Hope-]

45 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

Good read from Turron Davenport on RC/Vrabes

 https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39007415/how-titans-mike-vrabel-ran-carthon-navigating-season

man, i don't understand what the point of sports reporting is sometimes lol. there's absolutely nothing of substance in here

[TitanRedd]

9 hours ago, Dr.Doom52 said:

I'll jump in a little on the Offensive scheme a little since this has been my complaint with the team since AJB left, Lewan-Jones-Saffold-Davis left, CD and Jonnu left...we are still trying to run all of the same concepts. Pound the ball and take 15+ yard shots. We rarely run anything shallow or quick developing, and if we do the QB don't even look for that...the one out of 7 plays we actually put in a shallow route, the guys isn't even guarded but we don't look at him...which make me think we are coached top only look for the downfield play and the other team knows we won't look at the shorter route. It feels like half of the sacks we take all of the WR's have their back turned.

The offense is really my only issue with Vrabel from a HC stand point. You look at other teams and they are adapting to the league and their personnel, Vrabel just won't adjust. He keeps hiring from within because he likes what he is getting. We run all of the same base plays and teams know exactly what we are doing. 

If he would have gone outside and gotten someone else to run the offense I would probably have more patience with him. I also think this is the time to let him go and infuse some hope in the team prior to moving into a new building. Having a defensive minded HC is not great because if we have a good offense they leave to become the HC somewhere else. 

I know we have bad personnel, specifically on the O-line...but we are still trying to run the same thing as when we had 4-6 high end Pro Bowl level players on offense. At some point you have to adjust what you are doing vs saying players have to play better. 

Last thing...I am a Michigan fan and I said from day one, Harbaugh is a good coach but we will never win a Natty because his philosophy is not right for the CFB game. We will be good year in year out but never get over the top. I see the same thing in MV...good coach but will never be willing to adapt to the current personnel or league.

No doubt if we spend tons of money this offseason and have a great draft we can win 10 games...but what could someone with some ingenuity and imagination do? 

Well said 

[Soxcat]

Thats funny, GM only 55% of the problem.  Two misses at OT, total miss at CB in first round and Fulton hasn't lived up either.  Drafted a Rb at QB in the 3rd round and NPF also looks like another dud OT.  Let the best WR in football get away.  But yea, Vrabel is 45% of the problem.  Even the OC and DC can't be blamed when they are trying to play with crap talent.  Vrabel hired LaFleur and then promoted Smith to OC.  He hired Dean Pees as DC.  But now he can't hire talented coordinators?  Fans micro-analyze everything the offense and defense does but the bottom line is we don't have adequate talent and have been devastated by injuries. 

Oh, when Levis looks to go deep he gets blamed for taking shots and missing shorter routes.  When he throws shorter routes he is blamed for not going deep.  He is a rookie QB that is getting raped every time he drops to pass.   We have no consistency across the board.  Chig misses as many passes as he catches.  None of our TEs can block in the run game.  Whyle was responsible for two blocked punts.   

At this point the last guy to blame is Vrabel.  We just need to see if Ran can bring in the groceries the next couple of years and if Levis develops like it looks he can this will be a winning team again.   

[Dr.Doom52]

I can't speak for anyone else that is ready to move on from Vrabel...but I don't blame hime solely for all of our problems. He gets some blame for sure, I just think having a Defensive coach is the wrong direction. I have heard a few conversation in the past week about how the offensive HC's that have to have back-up QB's have half of the drop off in Offensive production as the Defensive HC's. The idea that was discussed was the offensive guys are more understanding of the QB and how to utilize them to achieve the best results. Where as the defensive guys are concerned with the defense and just want to have the game executed in a certain way as to not put the defense in a bind. 

Of course the success is not super sustainable with the back ups but the offensive coaches brought up were MIN, IND, NYG...and the defensive coaches were NYJ and maybe a couple from last year. I hadn't considered that before but just add to my reasoning for wanting and offensive HC. 

I think Vrabel is a quality HC, and would make a team like the LAC instantly better...I just think his mentality of the type of football he wants, limits his ceiling...which like I said before is getting to the AFCC game...I just want a Super Bowl. I hope if we keep him I ams wrong and he gets us there, but I think it's just a matter of time before he proves he not that guy. 

[TitanRedd]

3 hours ago, Soxcat said:

Thats funny, GM only 55% of the problem.  Two misses at OT, total miss at CB in first round and Fulton hasn't lived up either.  Drafted a Rb at QB in the 3rd round and NPF also looks like another dud OT.  Let the best WR in football get away.  But yea, Vrabel is 45% of the problem.  Even the OC and DC can't be blamed when they are trying to play with crap talent.  Vrabel hired LaFleur and then promoted Smith to OC.  He hired Dean Pees as DC.  But now he can't hire talented coordinators?  Fans micro-analyze everything the offense and defense does but the bottom line is we don't have adequate talent and have been devastated by injuries. 

Oh, when Levis looks to go deep he gets blamed for taking shots and missing shorter routes.  When he throws shorter routes he is blamed for not going deep.  He is a rookie QB that is getting raped every time he drops to pass.   We have no consistency across the board.  Chig misses as many passes as he catches.  None of our TEs can block in the run game.  Whyle was responsible for two blocked punts.   

At this point the last guy to blame is Vrabel.  We just need to see if Ran can bring in the groceries the next couple of years and if Levis develops like it looks he can this will be a winning team again.   

We know what J Rob did we also know what vrabel did, & you’re not telling it how the whole story, but if that’s your opinion on vrabel I won’t care to change your mind. Nobody is micro analyzing a thing maybe you’re simply overlooking the obvious & the red flags. You got it vrabel for president 💪🏽

[TitanRedd]

On 12/3/2023 at 6:56 PM, ttitansfan4life said:

Never going to move away from prehistoric football unless we move on from him. His defensive scheme sucks. SPT is constantly garbage despite spending millions on SPT players every year. Personnel usage is garbage. For years we’ve been using these big condensed plodding formations with the slowest WR we have being the only WR on the field. Not to mention the dumb active/inactive choices he has each week. Dude thinks he’s the smartest in the room when in reality, he isn’t ****.

You don’t say 

[deeluxx3]

Vrabel forever

[twotonebluenation]

Put some respect on that mans name.

[titanrick]

I can see the argument against Vrabel for not having more dynamic offenses over the years but I think so much of that depends on personnel and we haven't had a franchise QB here.  When you have King Henry wearing down teams and winning ugly, you stick with what works. 

But for in-game management and getting more out of our talent level, I think he's near the top of the sport.  He just gets it.  Now we need Ran to keep adding talent and rebuild a winner here.  I think Levis can be the guy but we need a new OLine and more playmakers.