The "I forgot to make a thread" Week 10 Thread: 2-6 WFT vs 6-2 Tompa Bay (SIMPSONS GIF WEEK MANIA)

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, TheGreeK1973 said:

The entire team played like crap the last month starting with our coaching staff.  That is the fact.

Again, this conversation is about Heinicke’s individual play. The bad sacks he took last month, the bad decisions he made, the open receivers he missed, the bad interceptions he threw etc etc. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by turtle28

[taylor made]

This was probably TH's best game so far. I'm not sure what the difference was... The O-Line was great again and having Scherff back helped a lot. The backup center looked good as well. 

Also Joey Slye is legit. 

Big game in Carolina next week. 

[TheGreeK1973]

3 minutes ago, taylor made said:

This was probably TH's best game so far. I'm not sure what the difference was... The O-Line was great again and having Scherff back helped a lot. The backup center looked good as well. 

Also Joey Slye is legit. 

Big game in Carolina next week. 

Exactly it also help that our kicker made the kicks he needed to make.  

[Slappy Mc]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

I can’t commit to that. Taylor is not an enriched starter for this team, he’s not a high draft pick who’s in his early to mid 20s that we know has an elite arm that we could see develop into a franchise QB w/in a few more years of development so we’d allow him to play through some awful outings and growing pains for a few seasons. 
 

It sucks for Heinicke but it is what it is. Heinicke shouldn’t have a blank check to this job or a leash that doesn’t have an end to it. If Fitzpatrick or Kyle Allen had started the past month and played how Heinicke had played, I’d be saying the same thing.

Underlined:
I'll say this again since it seems to be the same conversation with you. Its a good thing, you don't make the decisions for the team.

Bold:
So glad that only high draft picks with elite arms develop into Franchise QBs. What a world we would be in if someone was an unconventional player that performs well.

Italicized:
No one has said Heinicke deserves a blank check. He signed his contract before the season, he is easily the best active QB we have. For someone that has ALWAYS clamored for the back-up QB to get a shot, im surprised that you are taking this stance.

With all this said, Heinicke had a bounce back game today for sure. Unfortunately he is hurting our draft position.

[lavar703]

For me, I want to win. There is absolutely nothing worth tanking for this year. The QB I want can be had in the middle of the first round, if not later and losing does nothing at this moment for the future of this team. So I’ll be rooting for them to beat the crap out of the panthers and whoever else is on the schedule. 

[turtle28]

28 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

You act like Heinicke is THE reason we were 2-6. There is a staff that knows Allen and Heinicke better than anyone, Allen is on the bench for a very good reason.

Lets not forget our historically bad defense played good/very good today. Fixing a lot of the things that caused us to give up a very high rate of third downs and many broken responsibilities in coverage.

This team wins and loses as a whole. They all did their jobs today.

It’s not about wins & losses, I don’t think at that in terms of QB play and no one should. Wins/losses is a team stat, not a stat for any one player. I can’t help that you don’t agree that the previous 4 games that Heinicke himself didn’t play well. It wasn’t about the defense. I was focusing on Heinicke’s bad play. His inconsistency, his bad decisions, him missing open a lot of open WRs last month and his bad interceptions.

Heinicke went from the first 4 games having these stats:

960 yards, 8 TDs & 3 ints

To these stats the previous 4 games to today:

968 yds, 3 TDs & 6 ints

If any QB who's not an elite top 5 QB continues to have 3 TDs & 6 ints month after month I don’t know how anyone can continue to defend that. I don’t know how anyone can say we shouldn’t try his back up out to see if he can do better especially if that back up is on a one year deal, knows the offense just as well bc he’s been in the system for 4 years, played well last year before his season ending injury,  is 3 years younger, is also athletic and has a stronger arm.

Edited November 14, 2021 by turtle28

[Slappy Mc]

1 minute ago, lavar703 said:

For me, I want to win. There is absolutely nothing worth tanking for this year. The QB I want can be had in the middle of the first round, if not later and losing does nothing at this moment for the future of this team. So I’ll be rooting for them to beat the crap out of the panthers and whoever else is on the schedule. 

It sucks because its a Tarzan and Jane situation for this team. Sometimes they play like Tarzan and recently they been playing like Jane. If they play like they did today, consistently, we can hang with most teams. 19 Points for the Bucs ties their lowest output of the season. The won against the Pats in the only other game scoring 19 points. They were #1 entering today in Total TDs on offense. A big feather in the cap of this defense.

[turtle28]

14 minutes ago, taylor made said:

This was probably TH's best game so far. I'm not sure what the difference was... The O-Line was great again and having Scherff back helped a lot. The backup center looked good as well. 

Also Joey Slye is legit. 

Big game in Carolina next week. 

The difference was we got the lead early, we were able to run the ball and Heinicke was more accurate today the he had been the last 4 games.

[turtle28]

9 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Underlined:
I'll say this again since it seems to be the same conversation with you. Its a good thing, you don't make the decisions for the team.

Bold:
So glad that only high draft picks with elite arms develop into Franchise QBs. What a world we would be in if someone was an unconventional player that performs well.

Italicized:
No one has said Heinicke deserves a blank check. He signed his contract before the season, he is easily the best active QB we have. For someone that has ALWAYS clamored for the back-up QB to get a shot, im surprised that you are taking this stance.

With all this said, Heinicke had a bounce back game today for sure. Unfortunately he is hurting our draft position.

He had a great game. As I said l, I couldn’t be happier about that, I hope he continues to play as well as he did today the rest of the season but no, he doesn’t deserve the season just because.

If he plays the next 3 games having twice as many ints as TDs & missing open receivers all over the field then I’d like to see a change.

I hope that doesn’t happen, I hope Heinicke continues to have 250 yd plus, 1 or 2 TD games the rest of the season with him throwing half the ints the final 8 games as he did in October.

I’ll just put it this way, if Kirk Cousins was still here and he had a 3 TD, 6 int month you can’t tell me that most of the fanbase would be complaining about him and saying he should be replaced.
 

Heck, if Fitzpatrick or Kyle Allen were starting and they had played that poorly in a month everyone would be saying Put Taylor Heinicke in! 

[lavar703]

2 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

It sucks because its a Tarzan and Jane situation for this team. Sometimes they play like Tarzan and recently they been playing like Jane. If they play like they did today, consistently, we can hang with most teams. 19 Points for the Bucs ties their lowest output of the season. The won against the Pats in the only other game scoring 19 points. They were #1 entering today in Total TDs on offense. A big feather in the cap of this defense.

To be honest, the offense was moving with Heinecke and then they hit this weird lull. What we saw form Heinecke today is what we’ve basically seen from him every game except for that weird span of games starting with KC. With that said, we still have no idea what Heinecke is at the moment because it’s been such a mixed bag of great and bad. I think maybe what we’re seeing as well is Turner having no idea what Heinecke is either and that’s why for a span there we saw him sitting in the pocket and struggling. 
 

Heinecke is short. He has to get out of the pocket so he can see the field and Turner started doing that more as the game went on and it seemed like Tampa started to worry about his legs and it opened up the middle of the field. He has to do that more. He’s not a pocket passer. Let him do what he does best. 

[Slappy Mc]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

Heinicke went from the first 4 games having these stats:

960 yards, 8 TDs & 3 ints

To these stats the previous 4 games:

720 yds, 3 TDs & 6 ints

If any QB who's not an elite top 5 QB continues to have 3 TDs & 6 ints month after month I don’t know how anyone can continue to defend that. I don’t know how anyone can say we shouldn’t try his back up out to see if he can do better especially if that back up is on a one year deal, knows the offense just as well bc he’s been in the system for 4 years, played well last year before his season ending injury,  is 3 years younger, is also athletic and has a stronger arm.

So because Heinicke isn't an ELITE QB (as determined by who?), his bad games outweigh bad games by any QB deemed to be Elite? That makes zero sense. The performance of ANY player is how they are weighed. Namebrands mean nothing. Tom Brady didn't play well today and his team ended up with the L. Taylor Heinicke did and his team got the W. Whether or not either player was "elite" heading into the day means nothing.

6 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

It’s not about wins & losses, I don’t think at that in terms of QB play and no one should. Wins/losses is a team stat, not a stat for any one player. I can’t help that you don’t agree that the previous 4 games that Heinicke himself didn’t play well. It wasn’t about the defense. I was focusing on Heinicke’s bad play. His inconsistency, his bad decisions, him missing open a lot of open WRs last month and his bad interceptions.

I will agree that Wins/Losses should not be a statistic for QBs. I will agree that Heinicke did not play well in any of our 4 game losing streak, but you also have to look at the team as a whole if you are going to play the losses are not solely on one player card. The inability to finish drives and prevent teams from scoring TDs instead of FG has been this teams biggest downfall. Not to mention the inability to make adjustments by both coordinators.

[turtle28]

It was one game. Heinicke has to continue to play at a good to great level to keep the job the rest of the season. He can’t have a 3 TD, 6 int rest of the month or in December.

I can’t help that some will accept that kind of play from their starting QB but I won’t.

Edited November 14, 2021 by turtle28

[RSkinGM]

 

[Slappy Mc]

6 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I’ll just put it this way, if Kirk Cousins was still here and he had a 3 TD, 6 int month you can’t tell me that most of the fanbase would be complaining about him and saying he should be replaced.
 

Heck, if Fitzpatrick or Kyle Allen were starting and they had played that poorly in a month everyone would be saying Put Taylor Heinicke in! 

This is the nature of this fan base. Never satisfied with our QB play. We always want the shiny new toy. Its understandable that some would feel this way, but I still laugh at everything we have seen this season that people want to say that Kyle Allen gives us a better chance to win. Is no one watching how this offense and defense comes out fired up when you have a guy like Heinicke? How many times did we see Kyle Allen take really bad sacks and force bad passes last year? Whether or not Heinicke is the guy AFTER this season is not in discussion right now, but for this season, Taylor should not be pulled unless he puts out a Tim Hasselbeck vs the Cowboys 4 INT performance.

[Slappy Mc]

7 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

It was one game. Heinicke has to continue to play at a good to great level to keep the job the rest of the season. He can’t have a 3 TD, 6 int rest of the month or in December.

I can’t help that some will accept that kind of play for their starting QB but I won’t.

Again, glad you don't make those calls.