Soko Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 42 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Imagine comparing two players based on their best season and best season only, that is just flat out stupid and a waste of time. I mean, you entered the thread that’s a waste of time and tacked on the 6 longest posts in it, so… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Ozzy said: Seriously though, how does going to a ridiculously stable and well ran organization playing for a future HOF QB not matter in the success you have as a receiver? So you do not recall the list I gave you of Arizona QBs Larry Fitzgerald had, so pick some things to argue then ignore others I see. You feel AB is a better route runner because he gets more separation. I do not call that route running, I call it a smaller receiver that is better in and out of cuts because he is smaller and more athletic and nimble. If that is route running to you sure, Larry is not as quick in and out of breaks so had to be even more precise in his route running especially since he did not get as much separation because his change of direction was not good or his speed in a short area. Brown had way more short area quickness which obviously helped him in the return game and as a receiver in general. Nobody is ignoring anything. I have never at one point said it does not matter the situation you fall in, and literally said in my first post in this thread that it is a shame Fitzgerald didn't have better QBs. You made a post saying AB was only better at so and so. And I added everything else that he was better at. Now you have this ridiculous (I'm sorry, again no disrespect to you, but that is exactly what it is - ridiculous) argument that somehow we shouldn't take into consideration Brown's superior route-running and ability to separate because he was... faster? That literally doesn't make any sense. Physical attributes should absolutely be considered when talking about who is better or not. It isn't the be all, end all, sure, but I've never heard an argument that holds athleticism against said player. If getting separation was all about how fast you were, then the best receivers in the NFL would also be among the fastest. But that isn't the case. Brown, generally speaking, wasn't a special athlete at the receiver position. Fitzgerald was far more in the mold of what we expect a wide receiver to look like and play like than Brown was. Why does it matter how or why Brown is a better route-runner and better at separating? I just do not get the argument. I could just as easily argue that Lamar Jackson wouldn't be seen as a top quarterback if he was a Brady-level athlete, but I wouldn't make that argument because it is nonsensical. You can't just say that we should remove someone's physical attributes when evaluating who is the better player. There is no way you don't realize this, unless your hate for Brown is that strong... and that seems to be the case, especially with how you insinuate how much I must love the guy. It just does not make any sense. On that same token, we shouldn't consider Randy Moss' ability to go deep as much as we do simply because he was one of the all-time great athletes. Why does that matter? Being a great athlete absolutely matters. But, even worse is that by making this argument, you seem to be implying that Fitzgerald also wasn't a very good athlete. And that just isn't true. Fitzgerald benefited just as much, if not more, from his physical skill-set than AB did. The only way you can think Fitzgerald wasn't a great athlete is if you have only watched him for the previous 5 or so years. His physical skill-set was undeniably more conducive to being a great wide receiver than Brown's was. There is a reason Brown went in the 6th round. And yet, here you are, arguing that somehow it was Brown's athleticism solely that allowed him to get open as much as he did. If you want to argue who the better WR is, I'm all for that. I think there is a strong argument for Fitz, just as I do with AB. My problem is your argument seems to be rooted in A) nonsensical reasoning and B) personal feelings. Brown being faster or quicker does not nullify him being superior at route-running, separating, yards after the catch, etc. Just as Fitzgerald's size does not nullify him from being superior at jump balls, catching the ball in traffic, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 13 minutes ago, iknowcool said: Nobody is ignoring anything. I have never at one point said it does not matter the situation you fall in, and literally said in my first post in this thread that it is a shame Fitzgerald didn't have better QBs. You made a post saying AB was only better at so and so. And I added everything else that he was better at. Now you have this ridiculous (I'm sorry, again no disrespect to you, but that is exactly what it is - ridiculous) argument that somehow we shouldn't take into consideration Brown's superior route-running and ability to separate because he was... faster? That literally doesn't make any sense. Physical attributes should absolutely be considered when talking about who is better or not. It isn't the be all, end all, sure, but I've never heard an argument that holds athleticism against said player. If getting separation was all about how fast you were, then the best receivers in the NFL would also be among the fastest. But that isn't the case. Brown, generally speaking, wasn't a special athlete at the receiver position. Fitzgerald was far more in the mold of what we expect a wide receiver to look like and play like than Brown was. Why does it matter how or why Brown is a better route-runner and better at separating? I just do not get the argument. I could just as easily argue that Lamar Jackson wouldn't be seen as a top quarterback if he was a Brady-level athlete, but I wouldn't make that argument because it is nonsensical. You can't just say that we should remove someone's physical attributes when evaluating who is the better player. There is no way you don't realize this, unless your hate for Brown is that strong... and that seems to be the case, especially with how you insinuate how much I must love the guy. It just does not make any sense. On that same token, we shouldn't consider Randy Moss' ability to go deep as much as we do simply because he was one of the all-time great athletes. Why does that matter? Being a great athlete absolutely matters. But, even worse is that by making this argument, you seem to be implying that Fitzgerald also wasn't a very good athlete. And that just isn't true. Fitzgerald benefited just as much, if not more, from his physical skill-set than AB did. The only way you can think Fitzgerald wasn't a great athlete is if you have only watched him for the previous 5 or so years. His physical skill-set was undeniably more conducive to being a great wide receiver than Brown's was. There is a reason Brown went in the 6th round. And yet, here you are, arguing that somehow it was Brown's athleticism solely that allowed him to get open as much as he did. If you want to argue who the better WR is, I'm all for that. I think there is a strong argument for Fitz, just as I do with AB. My problem is your argument seems to be rooted in A) nonsensical reasoning and B) personal feelings. Brown being faster or quicker does not nullify him being superior at route-running, separating, yards after the catch, etc. Just as Fitzgerald's size does not nullify him from being superior at jump balls, catching the ball in traffic, etc. Semantics much? I would never in my life take Antonio Brown as a prospect or throughout his career over Larry Fitzgerald. I could give a rip about only looking at one specific year or another. I feel he is mentally off, he benefited greatly from his circumstance and ultimately in the grand scheme of things is great but not an all time great, arguably not even a top 10 WR all time. You clearly love the dude as if he is something to model all WR play after, no thank you. Achieved a ton but just like I am not a huge fan of TO, same reason for AB, they are beyond tainted. At least TO has the stats to back it up though, 3rd all time in TDs and 3rd all time in receiving yards, oh but AB went nuts for 3 years so that is why he is not up there?....ok. Sure I should not take out athletic abilities of players but I still feel Fitzgerald is a better route runner in total, either way his stats absolutely destroy Antonio Brown thus the do not consider his entire career commentary at the start of this thread. So until AB plays for another four years and produces greatly, something I doubt will happen yeah he has a ways to go. So you are not a Steeler fan? That would be a shocker, instead if you are someone that just marvels at the way Antonio Brown plays receiver that would be something I have never come across. He is not exactly an individual to model WR play after considering the grand scheme of things. 22 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: I mean, you entered the thread that’s a waste of time and tacked on the 6 longest posts in it, so… True I instantly regret this choice because for one I am arguing with someone that puts Antonio Brown into the top 5 receivers of ALL TIME! When he is currently 25th all time in yards and 23rd all time in TDs caught, so yeah he is not even close to the conversation statistically but no who cares he was great for a few years... By the way Larry Fitzgerald is 6th all time in TDs caught and 2nd all time in yards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, Ozzy said: True I instantly regret this choice because for one I am arguing with someone that puts Antonio Brown into the top 5 receivers of ALL TIME! When he is currently 25th all time in yards and 23rd all time in TDs caught, so yeah he is not even close to the conversation statistically but no who cares he was great for a few years... By the way Larry Fitzgerald is 6th all time in TDs caught and 2nd all time in yards... You kind of should regret it. No one’s debating HOF candidacy or careers. Topic of the thread is stated in simple terms in the OP. Coming into a thread and saying that “this topic is a waste of time”, and then trying to change it, is the actual waste of time. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: You kind of should regret it. No one’s debating HOF candidacy or careers. Topic of the thread is stated in simple terms in the OP. Coming into a thread and saying that “this topic is a waste of time”, and then trying to change it, is the actual waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 15 hours ago, mdonnelly21 said: For all intent purposes lets just say during prime. Not including overall career. 2 hours ago, Ozzy said: Not including overall career? How can one not include the overall career considering Brown flushed 3 years of his "prime" down the toilet, but sure cherry picked a Super Bowl out of the deal last year. 2 hours ago, Ozzy said: it is not even a comparison looking at the entire picture. 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: Larry Fitzgerald had a longer career, more consistency, more production 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: Imagine comparing two players based on their best season and best season only, that is just flat out stupid and a waste of time. 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: obviously more production and consistency throughout his entire career. But no, with Antonio Brown just look at 2013-2018 then close your eyes and pretend nothing else ever happened. 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: Hall of Fame ballots are based off of a dudes peak 2-3 years and that is it? How about no. 57 minutes ago, Ozzy said: EJust to me his career is forever tainted with how nuts he has acted at times, same can be said for Terrell Owens. 22 minutes ago, Ozzy said: I could give a rip about only looking at one specific year or another. I feel he is mentally off, he benefited greatly from his circumstance and ultimately in the grand scheme of things is great but not an all time great, arguably not even a top 10 WR all time. 22 minutes ago, Ozzy said: At least TO has the stats to back it up though, 3rd all time in TDs and 3rd all time in receiving yards, oh but AB went nuts for 3 years so that is why he is not up there? 22 minutes ago, Ozzy said: either way his stats absolutely destroy Antonio Brown thus the do not consider his entire career commentary at the start of this thread. 22 minutes ago, Ozzy said: So until AB plays for another four years and produces greatly, something I doubt will happen yeah he has a ways to go. 22 minutes ago, Ozzy said: He is not exactly an individual to model WR play after considering the grand scheme of things. 22 minutes ago, Ozzy said: When he is currently 25th all time in yards and 23rd all time in TDs caught, so yeah he is not even close to the conversation statistically but no who cares he was great for a few years... By the way Larry Fitzgerald is 6th all time in TDs caught and 2nd all time in yards... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 I despise Antonio Brown, am not a Steeler fan, and yet I still marvel at the way he played wide receiver. I can separate the person from the player. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Larrys prime was better than Browns. Larry during the playoffs of their superbowl run was unreal, Brown hasnt touched that level of greatness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 7 hours ago, ET80 said: *Shrug* Not much of a Cameron Diaz fan. Basic, IMO. Give me Lucy Liu, please and thanks. dude.. I already did, but you just made me like you so much...very well done 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 5 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Still putting in that Goldberg work, I see. You're doing that good work, keep on keeping on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, fluhartz said: dude.. I already did, but you just made me like you so much...very well done It's like Andre 3000 was speaking from my mind in his song "Hey Ya". I've loved Lucy since her Ally McBeal days... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 6 hours ago, Ozzy said: Semantics much? What do you mean? You literally have said what you said. In what way am I play the semantics game? And there you go again, insinuating that I must be in love with the player just because I think he was a great player. You are the only one in this thread who's personally feelings are affecting their thought process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 8 hours ago, ET80 said: I buy this. At their absolute best, AB. If you're looking for consistency over a long period of time, Fitzgerald. This AB's highs were higher. Fitzy had better longevity and consistency 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lark25 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 I feel like AB had a higher ceiling but Fitz more consistently good. Who would I want on my team? No question the solid dude rather than the locker room cancer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 13 hours ago, ET80 said: It's like Andre 3000 was speaking from my mind in his song "Hey Ya". I've loved Lucy since her Ally McBeal days... her and Rosario Dawson have been my favorites forever... both are just beautiful women. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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