Bears Hire Ryan Poles as GM & Matt Eberflus as HC

[dll2000]

12 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Huh? So what's your solution?

I'm saying they can change Ted's title and then George can hire the president of football ops. Yeah, that idiot would do the hiring, but I suppose his pool will be dilluted in terms of all he has to do is find a former coach, agent, president, etc to do the job who has done it at a good or great level. It certainly beats him and Ted together hiring just a GM who is coming from a scouting background. It's like hiring a HC who was a coordinator. You don't know how that translates to HC, but I trust a guy who has been an agent/GM/HC to hire that guy than I do Ted and George

As for that president's role, I suppose he's just there for a sounding board, similarly to Ted now, but againI'd rather that sounding board know WTF he's saying rather than it being an accountant pretending

There is no perfect solution.  If you hire a ‘football guy’ to pick new GM who is hiring football guy? You have same problem one step removed.

This is why bad orgs. generally stay bad orgs.   You can still get lucky.  

[WindyCity]

A president of football ops moves the McCaskeys another layer away from hiring day to day football decision makers.

The President of football ops would hire, support, and evaluate the GM and HC.

Anything is better than George, who is incompetent, trying to make those evaluations.

[beardown3231]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

There is no perfect solution.  If you hire a ‘football guy’ to pick new GM who is hiring football guy? You have same problem one step removed.

This is why bad orgs. generally stay bad orgs.   You can still get lucky.  

But again, hiring a President isn't a perfect science by any means but I think the odds Rick Smith is a good president are far greater than Ed Dodds, for example, is a good GM. I'd much rather Smith pick that GM than McCaskey. Smith would just be overseeing things after the GM hire and like Windy said, this scenario somewhat keeps those 2 baffoons out of football ops

Also, owners are billionaires. None of them are football people. Even Jerry Jones wasn't a football guy once upon a time. Every organization other than DAL has a non-football-guy as an owner. If George can get the president right- which again imo is easier than picking a GM- the Bears would no longer be a "bad organization."

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

Hiring a GM, imo, is more difficult than a President. Odds are this president will have had past success as an agent (Armstrong) or GM (Smith). That's easier to identity. Been there done that, if you will. Assuming a scout can transform into a successful GM is a lot more difficult. I'd trust George to hire a President much more than a GM

Fair enough and I get the Trace Armstrong angle but if you're hiring Rick Smith then why not just make him GM instead of giving him this fancy title of head of football ops?

I'd take Rick Smith as my GM and then there'd be no need for someone above him besides George. Just my opinion

 

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

A president of football ops moves the McCaskeys another layer away from hiring day to day football decision makers.

The President of football ops would hire, support, and evaluate the GM and HC.

Anything is better than George, who is incompetent, trying to make those evaluations.

But then who evaluates the performance of the head of football ops if things don't end up going well?

In the end Georgie is eventually still going to have some type of evaluation of the entire football operation whether there's a VP or just a GM

[Madmike90]

Just finished watching the Dallas vs. Washington and it was by far the best designed and called offensive gameplan I have seen all season...Moore had the WAS defence completely out if sync and confused...the glimpses you see out of Moore do suggest he will be a top top HC...just depends on if a team want to take a risk on being average for a couple of season until he gets more experienced. 

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

But again, hiring a President isn't a perfect science by any means but I think the odds Rick Smith is a good president are far greater than Ed Dodds, for example, is a good GM. I'd much rather Smith pick that GM than McCaskey. Smith would just be overseeing things after the GM hire and like Windy said, this scenario somewhat keeps those 2 baffoons out of football ops

Also, owners are billionaires. None of them are football people. Even Jerry Jones wasn't a football guy once upon a time. Every organization other than DAL has a non-football-guy as an owner. If George can get the president right- which again imo is easier than picking a GM- the Bears would no longer be a "bad organization."

That isn't really true. 

Jerry Jones runs drafts and FAs for Dallas since Jimmy J. left and generally does a pretty good job - better than a lot of 'football guys'.    He hasn't won a lot of SBs since Jimmy left (just the one), but neither did Jimmy and his recent track record has been pretty darn good.    They have a decent chance to win it all this year.     

What is a 'football guy' anyway?    

If you are passively into football it is different than if it is your passion.    The problem comes with dabblers.

A lot of people can get good at a lot of different things if they work at it and study it.  Even if they didn't have a classic background in whatever it is.       

Kraft is pretty good at running an org.  The Rooney's are good at running an org.   DeBartlo Jr. was really good at running an org. before he got into repeated personal legal trouble.

Like anything some managers are just simply better than others

McCaskey's are just not very good.   George even admits he would like to run his org. more like Rooney's and calls them for advice.    

 

 

 

[dll2000]

Pace is a 'football guy' by any definition.

I am not knocking him for failing to properly evaluate a QB.   Anyone can do that.   Projecting a talent from one level to next is an inexact science that literally anyone can fail at.

He is actually an above average scout and GM in a lot of ways.   He runs a tight ship.  People like working for him.   He is honest with them.  He doesn't seem to micromanage.    He is good at finding overlooked talent though he tries to do it a bit too often.    

But where does he fail IMO?   Why did he fail at Bears?  

He doesn't or didn't understand A) what makes a good head football coach and why, best practices for player development and B) the overarching importance of line play to winning football.   

It is classic football mistake. 

I studied difference between coaches who win a lot and any where they go and those who don't while I was in coaching and before.

It should be that those with best talent win, but that is rarely case in football.   Yes, an overwhelmingly talented team will win, but that is often lightening in a bottle.    The good coaches sustain winning.  The big question is why?

The full answer would be an entire book.  Maybe several.  

But in a nutshell - it is way they run practices, the way they teach, and their desire and ability to build a program around the team.    

It is not, I repeat not, a genius scheme.    It is execution of said scheme by the players.   And it doesn't matter what a coach knows.   You as the coach can know every way from Sunday how to beat any defense and it doesn't matter.   It is what the players know.   If they don't know, all your knowledge is meaningless.

Good technique, plus being in right position will trump talent unless talent is overwhelmingly better.   

Or put another way  Fundamentals + Execution > talent (to a degree).

It is these points that Pace doesn't get well enough.   He can't recognize bad coaching when he sees it in practice. 

 When you can't do that you are more likely to pick bad coaches, because you don't know good coaching.  

[beardown3231]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

That isn't really true. 

Jerry Jones runs drafts and FAs for Dallas since Jimmy J. left and generally does a pretty good job - better than a lot of 'football guys'.    He hasn't won a lot of SBs since Jimmy left (just the one), but neither did Jimmy and his recent track record has been pretty darn good.    They have a decent chance to win it all this year.     

What is a 'football guy' anyway?    

If you are passively into football it is different than if it is your passion.    The problem comes with dabblers.

A lot of people can get good at a lot of different things if they work at it and study it.  Even if they didn't have a classic background in whatever it is.       

Kraft is pretty good at running an org.  The Rooney's are good at running an org.   DeBartlo Jr. was really good at running an org. before he got into repeated personal legal trouble.

Like anything some managers are just simply better than others

McCaskey's are just not very good.   George even admits he would like to run his org. more like Rooney's and calls them for advice.    

 

 

 

Kraft is good because he had Brady and still has Belichick. Belichick is the coach, GM, president and everything else. Kraft lucked out by getting Belichick. I can guarantee 80% of NE fans weren't excited about that hire at the time. 

The Rooney's pick good head coaches. That doesn't mean they don't have a clue about football. Do you think the Ravens owner grew up loving football and has some indepth football background? 

George needs to find a guy who has had success in football operations of some sort and make him the President

Again, I ask: what's your solution? The vast majority of professional sports owners don't know more than we do about finding good players. They just swing at scouts, etc to run their operations and hope they hit a home run. George can stop trying to hit home runs by hiring someone who's done it before (a single, if you must) and letting THAT GUY hire a GM

 

2 hours ago, topwop1 said:

Fair enough and I get the Trace Armstrong angle but if you're hiring Rick Smith then why not just make him GM instead of giving him this fancy title of head of football ops?

I'd take Rick Smith as my GM and then there'd be no need for someone above him besides George. Just my opinion

 

I don't disagree. I was just going off of the notion that they'll demote Ted and hire a replacement. They may not, but if they do, I'd like it to be a person with football background

[beardown3231]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Pace is a 'football guy' by any definition.

I am not knocking him for failing to properly evaluate a QB.   Anyone can do that.   Projecting a talent from one level to next is an inexact science that literally anyone can fail at.

He is actually an above average scout and GM in a lot of ways.   He runs a tight ship.  People like working for him.   He is honest with them.  He doesn't seem to micromanage.    He is good at finding overlooked talent though he tries to do it a bit too often.    

But where does he fail IMO?   Why did he fail at Bears?  

He doesn't or didn't understand A) what makes a good head football coach and why, best practices for player development and B) the overarching importance of line play to winning football.   

It is classic football mistake. 

I studied difference between coaches who win a lot and any where they go and those who don't while I was in coaching and before.

It should be that those with best talent win, but that is rarely case in football.   Yes, an overwhelmingly talented team will win, but that is often lightening in a bottle.    The good coaches sustain winning.  The big question is why?

The full answer would be an entire book.  Maybe several.  

But in a nutshell - it is way they run practices, the way they teach, and their desire and ability to build a program around the team.    

It is not, I repeat not, a genius scheme.    It is execution of said scheme by the players.   And it doesn't matter what a coach knows.   You as the coach can know every way from Sunday how to beat any defense and it doesn't matter.   It is what the players know.   If they don't know, all your knowledge is meaningless.

Good technique, plus being in right position will trump talent unless talent is overwhelmingly better.   

Or put another way  Fundamentals + Execution > talent (to a degree).

It is these points that Pace doesn't get well enough.   He can't recognize bad coaching when he sees it in practice. 

 When you can't do that you are more likely to pick bad coaches, because you don't know good coaching.  

Pace is a football guy, but Pace went from a scout to a GM. Scout to a GM is a complete coin flip. All I'm saying is projecting a former GM, president, etc who's had success is a lot easier than projecting scout to GM

[dll2000]

10 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Kraft is good because he had Brady and still has Belichick. Belichick is the coach, GM, president and everything else. Kraft lucked out by getting Belichick. I can guarantee 80% of NE fans weren't excited about that hire at the time. 

But not all owners/managers can recognize they have a good thing when they have it and keep their mitts off things and let talented employees be talented employees.    That is often what separates a good manager from a bad one.  It's not nothing.   It is a skill in and of itself and an important one.    I have seen many employers lose a top producer by micromanaging or annoying them and their own org. suffers for it greatly.   It is more common than not in all industries.  Being able to properly recognize and enable and help talent is more important at top than being talented yourself.       

10 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

 

The Rooney's pick good head coaches. That doesn't mean they don't have a clue about football. Do you think the Ravens owner grew up loving football and has some indepth football background? 

This is my point.  You don't have to be a great coach or GM to be really good at hiring good coaches or GMs.  You need to be able to differentiate and recognize talent and when you get talent to keep it there and keep it happy.    

10 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

George needs to find a guy who has had success in football operations of some sort and make him the President

Again, I ask: what's your solution? The vast majority of professional sports owners don't know more than we do about finding good players. They just swing at scouts, etc to run their operations and hope they hit a home run. George can stop trying to hit home runs by hiring someone who's done it before (a single, if you must) and letting THAT GUY hire a GM

 

I don't disagree. I was just going off of the notion that they'll demote Ted and hire a replacement. They may not, but if they do, I'd like it to be a person with football background

George doesn't have it.   Neither does Ted.  

My only solution is someone else who is seemingly good at it gets paid a consultant fee or something to do it for him/them.   Maybe Ozzie Newsome or someone would conduct interviews and do that for you.  Maybe get 3 guys like Ozzie and make them your search team - with majority vote - so one guy just doesn't pick his buddy as a favor.   Guys like that don't like that though.   They would balk at that.  Probably better to go with one guy and trust him.   

But again George would have to pick who does it and that brings you to square one.   However, should be easier to pick a good guy to pick a good guy than picking the guy himself. 

There is no good or perfect solution with George at top of pyramid.   You simply have to get lucky at some point in process and get someone good and hope they stay out of his way and keep him happy.

It is not just getting him in door, but giving him resources and support to do his job and keeping him happy.   Bears have never done all of that to date.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Madmike90]

Interesting that Dan Quinn has knocked back the change to interview with the Jags...maybe eyeing the Seahawks job if it comes up?

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, Madmike90 said:

Interesting that Dan Quinn has knocked back the change to interview with the Jags...maybe eyeing the Seahawks job if it comes up?

Could be. A connection for him there is easy to make, though if they end up trading Wilson this offseason that situation could bottom out HARD. Could be that he doesn’t want to work with Baalke too. Could be that he’s not the biggest believer in Trevor Lawrence, which is an obvious non-starter for going there. Could be that he hated that guy from The Good Place that was all about the Jags and it left him jaded about the franchise. Could be that he thinks (correctly) that Jacksonville the city is kind of a **** hole.

Or some combination of those things. 

[Madmike90]

3 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Could be. A connection for him there is easy to make, though if they end up trading Wilson this offseason that situation could bottom out HARD. Could be that he doesn’t want to work with Baalke too. Could be that he’s not the biggest believer in Trevor Lawrence, which is an obvious non-starter for going there. Could be that he hated that guy from The Good Place that was all about the Jags and it left him jaded about the franchise. Could be that he thinks (correctly) that Jacksonville the city is kind of a **** hole.

Or some combination of those things. 

I suspect that is a pretty big one.

[Sugashane]

6 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

Could be. A connection for him there is easy to make, though if they end up trading Wilson this offseason that situation could bottom out HARD. Could be that he doesn’t want to work with Baalke too. Could be that he’s not the biggest believer in Trevor Lawrence, which is an obvious non-starter for going there. Could be that he hated that guy from The Good Place that was all about the Jags and it left him jaded about the franchise. Could be that he thinks (correctly) that Jacksonville the city is kind of a **** hole.

Or some combination of those things. 

If so I wouldn't blame him. Baalke completely screwed up SF and has had a wonderful start to screwing up JAX with the Urban hire.