R T Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 7 hours ago, MantyWrestler said: Who created fear as a returner? Have a feeling by the verbiage that this is being framed to discredit anyone who played since Howard. Let's start with Howard because I think people misremember him because of his KO return in the SB, but he was a very average KO returner over his career. He averaged 20.9 yards a kick return that season for the Packers and the SB return was his only KO return for a TD he had that season. In fact, that was the only KO return for a TD he had in his 11-year professional career. In 1998 the Packers had little known FA Roell Preston as a returner, and he was named to the Pro Bowl as the returner for the NFC after having 3 returns for TD's that season. In 2000 Allen Rossum who was viewed as maybe the fastest man in the NFL at the time was added as the returner and averaged 25.8 a kick return. In his year and a half in GB he returned both a punt and a kick for TD's. Preston and Rossum were both better kick returners than Howard, Howard was the better punt returner of the 3. In 2007 the Packers were rich with punt return talent with Charles Woodson being the main returner but both Tramon Williams and Will Blackmon also getting chances. Blackmon had 3 punt returns for TDs for the Packers and Williams added a 94 yarder of his own. In Randall Cobb's rookie season, he had both punt and kick returns for TDs well averaging 27.7 a kick return and 11.3 a punt return. In his second season he averaged 25.4 and 9.4 with another punt returned for a TD. Micah Hyde replaced Cobb for the next two seasons and averaged 12.3 and 15.8 a return each season with 3 returned for TDs. Though it is not my cup of tea, in 2002 Sherman tried using the older big-name approach with bringing in Eric Metcalf (12 career returns for TDs, 3-time Pro Bowler as a returner) and Darrien Gordon (6 career punt returns for TDs). There has been plenty of high-end talent on returns since Howard, none with Howard's moment of glory in the SB, but a case can be made that several were better overall than Howard was. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isherwood Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 You can't fool me, that's Billy Joel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 13 hours ago, R T said: Have a feeling by the verbiage that this is being framed to discredit anyone who played since Howard. Let's start with Howard because I think people misremember him because of his KO return in the SB, but he was a very average KO returner over his career. He averaged 20.9 yards a kick return that season for the Packers and the SB return was his only KO return for a TD he had that season. In fact, that was the only KO return for a TD he had in his 11-year professional career. In 1998 the Packers had little known FA Roell Preston as a returner, and he was named to the Pro Bowl as the returner for the NFC after having 3 returns for TD's that season. In 2000 Allen Rossum who was viewed as maybe the fastest man in the NFL at the time was added as the returner and averaged 25.8 a kick return. In his year and a half in GB he returned both a punt and a kick for TD's. Preston and Rossum were both better kick returners than Howard, Howard was the better punt returner of the 3. In 2007 the Packers were rich with punt return talent with Charles Woodson being the main returner but both Tramon Williams and Will Blackmon also getting chances. Blackmon had 3 punt returns for TDs for the Packers and Williams added a 94 yarder of his own. In Randall Cobb's rookie season, he had both punt and kick returns for TDs well averaging 27.7 a kick return and 11.3 a punt return. In his second season he averaged 25.4 and 9.4 with another punt returned for a TD. Micah Hyde replaced Cobb for the next two seasons and averaged 12.3 and 15.8 a return each season with 3 returned for TDs. Though it is not my cup of tea, in 2002 Sherman tried using the older big-name approach with bringing in Eric Metcalf (12 career returns for TDs, 3-time Pro Bowler as a returner) and Darrien Gordon (6 career punt returns for TDs). There has been plenty of high-end talent on returns since Howard, none with Howard's moment of glory in the SB, but a case can be made that several were better overall than Howard was. Well, I stand somewhat corrected. Rossem did come to mind but I didn’t realize Preston made a pro bowl. However, I never felt we had a top tier returner who teams worried about with any of the names you mentioned. I guess not many teams do. I do feel we lack some speed at critical ST type positions. We have tremendous speed at CB but can any of them return kicks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 15 minutes ago, packfanfb said: So RB wasn't the real target...clever of MLF... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Sandy said: So RB wasn't the real target...clever of MLF... at this point in time, Rodgers probably has severed all ties with Storer😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLcheesehead12 Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 Well, I'll say this. He may not be Dave Toub, but he at least has had some top 10 ST units and is respected enough in this league that he's a credible hire. We needed a total outsider who can take us in a completely new direction with this unit, and we got one. Count me in! Meantime though, gotta say I think the Raiders royally screwed up trading him out for that clown Josh McDaniels. The Denver fans are laughing their butts off right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Fabulous hire this offseason. I guess they do listen to the fans once in while. I thought he should have maybe been considered more for the Raiders HC job, but maybe his time will come again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 10 hours ago, Skippy said: Fabulous hire this offseason. I guess they do listen to the fans once in while. I thought he should have maybe been considered more for the Raiders HC job, but maybe his time will come again. If they actually listen to the fans there is some real issues with the management. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 23 hours ago, R T said: If they actually listen to the fans there is some real issues with the management. So the fans like me that sat thru that cold disastrous playoff game told the management that we needed a new special teams coach after watching that debacle. They listened and sifted thru the eye test of the season and we got a new speial teams coach. I have no issue with that. It needed to be done. Every organization has issues, ours is no different. I applaud our mangagement this year. They did a good job. They went for it. Management didn't lose that game, some coaching maybe could be blamed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refugee Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 Solid interview today from our new coach, not that it means anything until we see the on field product. Rich is a no nonsense, player driven coach. I think he will get guys to buy in and of course his unit has our HC and GM’s attention so he should have some dedicated personnel. He spoke highly of our new punter as a pro who has shown he can do it in cold weather and as a holder who can make everyone else look good. I like that. LaFleur started with the young staff and has seen some grow and move on like Hackett and Getsy and has retained some like Steno. I like that he has brought in some gray beards like Coach Gray and Clements and now Bisaccia. These are guys who have seen it all and still have adapted to stay relevant. It’s well known but should be repeated, Rich was the interim HC when all the Gruden ish hit the fan and he didn’t just keep them from falling apart, he kept them on track to get to the playoffs. Good hire. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 18 hours ago, Refugee said: Solid interview today from our new coach, not that it means anything until we see the on field product. Rich is a no nonsense, player driven coach. I think he will get guys to buy in and of course his unit has our HC and GM’s attention so he should have some dedicated personnel. He spoke highly of our new punter as a pro who has shown he can do it in cold weather and as a holder who can make everyone else look good. I like that. LaFleur started with the young staff and has seen some grow and move on like Hackett and Getsy and has retained some like Steno. I like that he has brought in some gray beards like Coach Gray and Clements and now Bisaccia. These are guys who have seen it all and still have adapted to stay relevant. It’s well known but should be repeated, Rich was the interim HC when all the Gruden ish hit the fan and he didn’t just keep them from falling apart, he kept them on track to get to the playoffs. Good hire. Good hire, yes. Year too late. Absolutely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 19 hours ago, Refugee said: Solid interview today from our new coach, not that it means anything until we see the on field product. Rich is a no nonsense, player driven coach. I think he will get guys to buy in and of course his unit has our HC and GM’s attention so he should have some dedicated personnel. He spoke highly of our new punter as a pro who has shown he can do it in cold weather and as a holder who can make everyone else look good. I like that. LaFleur started with the young staff and has seen some grow and move on like Hackett and Getsy and has retained some like Steno. I like that he has brought in some gray beards like Coach Gray and Clements and now Bisaccia. These are guys who have seen it all and still have adapted to stay relevant. It’s well known but should be repeated, Rich was the interim HC when all the Gruden ish hit the fan and he didn’t just keep them from falling apart, he kept them on track to get to the playoffs. Good hire. I thought that Mo Drayton had a really good interview last season as well. Bisaccia has a track record, but I just want to caution that the interview doesn't mean a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refugee Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: I thought that Mo Drayton had a really good interview last season as well. Bisaccia has a track record, but I just want to caution that the interview doesn't mean a lot. Mo was energetic but clearly had no resume other than working with the previous regime. Rich has an incredible record including HC for a team that could have fallen apart but didn’t. As I stated, and you highlighted, I’ll believe it when I see it but I am optimistic and I’m not really normally optimistic. When it comes to Packers’ ST, I am even less so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 3 hours ago, Refugee said: Mo was energetic but clearly had no resume other than working with the previous regime. Rich has an incredible record including HC for a team that could have fallen apart but didn’t. As I stated, and you highlighted, I’ll believe it when I see it but I am optimistic and I’m not really normally optimistic. When it comes to Packers’ ST, I am even less so. We just need special teams to be competent. Hopefully Bisaccia can help get that accomplished. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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