Round 4 Pick 132; Romeo Doubs, WR Nevada

[Sandy]

3 hours ago, squire12 said:

There are probably only 7-8 of those types of players in the league at WR

Let me reword it then to make my point better. He'll never get his own paragraph when d-coordinators go over the game plan with their players.

I'm not hating on what he is, I just find some of the praise and expectations people have for him to be bizarre. He's a very nice role player but I don't understand some of the projections I've seen people bandy about for him. 

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Sandy said:

Let me reword it then to make my point better. He'll never get his own paragraph when d-coordinators go over the game plan with their players.

I'm not hating on what he is, I just find some of the praise and expectations people have for him to be bizarre. He's a very nice role player but I don't understand some of the projections I've seen people bandy about for him. 

It's the off-off season.  Nothing much to do but pump up our rookies and put out puff pieces about guys entering their second years.

It's kind of how it goes.  And it should go this way.  This is the time to be optimistic.  Even the Bears think that they are winning the division and that Fields is the best QB in the division.

[Ham Sammich]

Lazard isn't a key piece of the offense because he brings anything remotely exciting at the WR position. He's a key piece for his ability to be a hybrid WR/TE they can play out wide or in the slot to open up the run game or WR screen game. He'll continue to get his in the passing game, but agreed that he'll be closer to last year's numbers than anything over 1,000 yards receiving. 

The whole 1, 2, 3 conversation doesn't apply as it relates to Lazard as his role is pretty specific to his skillset. 

[JordanLoveFTW]

24 minutes ago, Ham Sammich said:

Lazard isn't a key piece of the offense because he brings anything remotely exciting at the WR position. He's a key piece for his ability to be a hybrid WR/TE they can play out wide or in the slot to open up the run game or WR screen game. He'll continue to get his in the passing game, but agreed that he'll be closer to last year's numbers than anything over 1,000 yards receiving. 

The whole 1, 2, 3 conversation doesn't apply as it relates to Lazard as his role is pretty specific to his skillset. 

Good point. He’s a really good blocker. He can even pass protect well, especially for his size. 
 

He can still get out and expose blown coverages and win one on ones once in a while. 
 

He’s a good piece.

It’s when people start dreaming up that he’s gonna be a #1 WR that we start to discuss his limitations. And there’s quite a bit of that in Packer Nation. Calm down. That’s not Allen Lazard. 

[craig]

Adams drew a lot of defensive attention in past.  Might be tougher for everybody, who knows?  

I'd like for the Packers to have 3-4 capable receivers who might arguably be viewed as #2 or #3 guys.  A good offense with a good line and a good QB can produce a lot of passing yards and TD's with a collection of capable #2/#3-caliber receivers.  And a guy with opportunities and targets can collect volume yards and TD's, without necessarily being better than an equivalent guy with less targets.  So, even in retrospect it's hard to attribute how much yardage stats is volume versus efficiency, receiver versus QB, receiver versus system and scheme, etc..  

I'd just like to have 3-4 guys who deserve plenty of NFL playing time, and who are good not just as blockers but as receivers.  And I'd like good O-line health, too, to give plays and Rodgers time to work.  

[vegas492]

49 minutes ago, JordanLoveFTW said:

 

It’s when people start dreaming up that he’s gonna be a #1 WR that we start to discuss his limitations. And there’s quite a bit of that in Packer Nation. Calm down. That’s not Allen Lazard. 

Give me names.  Names of posters here who feel that Alan Lazard is gonna be a #1 WR.  A legit #1.  Not the Packers #1 by default, but a legit #1 WR.

I'm here a lot.

I can't ever recall someone thinking that Lazard is going to be up there in the league with other #1's.  

I do recall people thinking his stats should go up just because of volume with Adams gone.

I do recall many people praising him for his "dirty" work in the game.

But in re-reading this, maybe you are talking more about Packer Nation in general as opposed to this board.  

[Norm]

56 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Give me names.  Names of posters here who feel that Alan Lazard is gonna be a #1 WR.  A legit #1.  Not the Packers #1 by default, but a legit #1 WR.

I'm here a lot.

I can't ever recall someone thinking that Lazard is going to be up there in the league with other #1's.  

I do recall people thinking his stats should go up just because of volume with Adams gone.

I do recall many people praising him for his "dirty" work in the game.

But in re-reading this, maybe you are talking more about Packer Nation in general as opposed to this board.  

I think he CAN be a 1000 yard WR this season... Idk if that means legit though. 

[TheEagle]

7 minutes ago, Norm said:

I think he CAN be a 1000 yard WR this season... Idk if that means legit though. 

I'd take the under on 1000, but I think he'll get fairly close. Something like 65-70 receptions for 850-900 yards. I could see us having 4, maybe 5, guys between 500+ yards with the leader being around 900 yards. Lazard, Watkins, Watson. Cobb, Tonyan, and possibly Jones are all possibilities to get to that mark. Last year, we had Adams with 1500+ yards and Lazard with a little over 500 yards--and that's it.

[Norm]

1 hour ago, TheEagle said:

I'd take the under on 1000, but I think he'll get fairly close. Something like 65-70 receptions for 850-900 yards. I could see us having 4, maybe 5, guys between 500+ yards with the leader being around 900 yards. Lazard, Watkins, Watson. Cobb, Tonyan, and possibly Jones are all possibilities to get to that mark. Last year, we had Adams with 1500+ yards and Lazard with a little over 500 yards--and that's it.

I'm being my house on the under if forced to choose, but I don't think it's insanity that he could put up a thousand yards. 

But yeah I'm guessing it'll be pretty spread around but who damn knows. 

I guess I just wanted to go on record saying (again) that I could see 1k. 

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Norm said:

I think he CAN be a 1000 yard WR this season... Idk if that means legit though. 

And if your mom used better breadcrumbs her meat loaf wouldn't be so darned dry!

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Norm said:

I think he CAN be a 1000 yard WR this season... Idk if that means legit though. 

If he starts and finished 17 games, yah, I think he can do it.

But he is going to miss time.  I'd say a great Lazard season is 825 yards.  Which is just fine.

[MrBobGray]

A lot of the questions around the receiver group are going to be answered by how they want to run the offense this year rather than the talent of any individual member.  That being said, if Lazard was a 1st round pick rather than a UDFA, people would be drooling all over his potential to break out this year.  Efficiency numbers are very good, physical measurements are high end, and for a 6'5", 230 lb receiver whose most dominant trait is blocking, he's had at least one 40+ yard play in every season he's played real minutes in and 18.5% of his catches went for 20+ yards or more.  To put that in perspective, Davante averaged 15.8% of his catches going for 20+ since 2019; Tyreek Hill averaged 17.1% over that same time frame.  Lazard obviously isn't an elite big play guy, but 4.55 is a lot different at that size and there's a lot you can do with that kind of body near the line of scrimmage that is hard for defenses to deal with.  He's not a WR1 in the sense of being a prototypical X receiver who wins in iso down after down, but that's a damn far way from not doing anything special.  Lazard is special in that he's a tough match-up for a DC formationally; he's as good as there is at the WR position as a blocker but can still beat you deep if you're napping on the vertical routes. 

[mikemike778]

20 hours ago, JordanLoveFTW said:

 

You can see in this clip showing every Lazard target from 2021, that Lazard struggles to create separation. And he’s not particularly good fending off contact or with contested catches. If you don’t create a lot of separation at least be good at contested catches. Then you can be a top target. 
 

He might get a few more looks and be the #1 read a few more times so his numbers should go up some.
 

But he’s probably going to be closer to his numbers from last year than to Davante Adams numbers. 

 

Its going to be an interesting year for Lazard. No question his numbers are very good and he deserves more opportunities.

WR1 means a lot of things though including drawing the best pass defenders which previously all went on Adams.

If DCs regard him as the main passing threat and put their CB1 on him there is obviously going to be a chance he gets completely shut out of games entirely. If he can take on the CB1s and put up good numbers then he should be on for serious money but on the flip side he could well look way out of his depth. He definitely deserves a shot at a bigger role anyway.

If Watkins and Cobb (and Lazard) stay healthy and Watson comes on then I would be looking at more WR4 packages even if its not MLF's thing. Whoever our WR1 and WR2 could well be outmatched against their lead corners but our WR3 and WR4 could well beat their equivalent.

[packfanfb]

Stats aren't the issue with Lazard, nor should they be the primary focus for any WR. Just about any WR in the NFL can put up decent stats with enough opportunity. Lazard played 716 snaps last season, good for 7th on the team. With Adams gone, figure that number jumps to at least 800, assuming he's healthy. Hell, with 800 snaps, if Lazard doesn't put up 70-80 catches, than he's worse than I thought. Just by being out there on the field that much, he's going to get balls thrown his way, he's going to get receptions, yards, etc. Does that say much more about him as a player? 

At WR, quality is as important if not more so than quantity. If Lazard catches 70 balls but on 25 of them, a better WR would have picked up another 10-15 yards, scored, etc., then you'd go with the other guy right? If it was as simple as box score stats, no team would invest any money at WR, you'd just pick 5 random guys to put out there and call it good. But it's about play-making ability, the ability for YAC, the ability to beat the CB across from you on 3rd down in the 4th quarter, the ability to make the catch in traffic, the ability to have a feel for the zone and get open, and a hundred other traits that actually separate upper tier guys from the rest. These are the areas where Lazard has to grow (if he can at all). Otherwise, he's just Travis Fulgham with more opportunity. 

[R T]

5 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

A lot of the questions around the receiver group are going to be answered by how they want to run the offense this year rather than the talent of any individual member.  That being said, if Lazard was a 1st round pick rather than a UDFA, people would be drooling all over his potential to break out this year.  Efficiency numbers are very good, physical measurements are high end, and for a 6'5", 230 lb receiver whose most dominant trait is blocking, he's had at least one 40+ yard play in every season he's played real minutes in and 18.5% of his catches went for 20+ yards or more.  To put that in perspective, Davante averaged 15.8% of his catches going for 20+ since 2019; Tyreek Hill averaged 17.1% over that same time frame.  Lazard obviously isn't an elite big play guy, but 4.55 is a lot different at that size and there's a lot you can do with that kind of body near the line of scrimmage that is hard for defenses to deal with.  He's not a WR1 in the sense of being a prototypical X receiver who wins in iso down after down, but that's a damn far way from not doing anything special.  Lazard is special in that he's a tough match-up for a DC formationally; he's as good as there is at the WR position as a blocker but can still beat you deep if you're napping on the vertical routes. 

I think the biggest problem many fans are having is visualizing what the offense looks like without Adams in it. Many people are trying to find a player that is going to consume the 123 catches Adams had and that is just the wrong way to be looking at the distribution. Some are hung up on the need to label someone a #1 WR and shouldn't think of it like that at all. Last year the WR room caught 240 receptions and this year the number will be very similar, only much more equally spread-out among each WR getting playing time.