2018 Draftable QB Discussion

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

I've said it before, I wouldn't play in Cleveland if I were a QB.

QB is one position where your success is directly tied to how well the franchise functions, and we are an absolute mess. If I were Sam Darnold or whomever I wouldn't tie my career to a huckster like Jimmy Haslam and I wouldn't give two craps what any "football guys" thought of the decision.

I would pull an Elway before I played here, our ownership has shown to be completely incompetent and I'd have no interest in being a part of the new GM/coach every two years cycle of bufoonery.

[buno67]

23 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I've said it before, I wouldn't play in Cleveland if I were a QB.

QB is one position where your success is directly tied to how well the franchise functions, and we are an absolute mess. If I were Sam Darnold or whomever I wouldn't tie my career to a huckster like Jimmy Haslam and I wouldn't give two craps what any "football guys" thought of the decision.

I would pull an Elway before I played here, our ownership has shown to be completely incompetent and I'd have no interest in being a part of the new GM/coach every two years cycle of bufoonery.

I could careless about a 2yeae cycle as a fan until a coaching staff and front actually prove their worth. To me it is just ignorant to keep incompetentance together for the sake of consistency. Sashi made his bed by not taking one of the top tier QBs. Taking Wentz or Watson would of saved his job because it would of made sense it building around that young potential QB. Hue was given a free pass. All he had to do is actually coach up some players and not be an asshat to the media but he screwed that up with his ego. Jimmy bright a business type mentality to the Browns. If you hire a GM ot store manager to run your store or business and they are no producing, why hang on to them? I could see if the browns were hiring legit guys and we were seeing success translating/materializing on the field but it’s not happening. It be different if Haslam was pulling a Gilbert and letting go of good and well respected GMs that other teams wanted but the Browns FO has been completely the opposite

[Aztec Hammer]

We'll find out soon enough. Probably in the next week. Are the Browns allowed any access to chat to Darnold or Rosen?

Please just dump Hue and even get Manning on board in some capacity if that's what it takes to convince them.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

49 minutes ago, buno67 said:

I could careless about a 2yeae cycle as a fan until a coaching staff and front actually prove their worth. To me it is just ignorant to keep incompetentance together for the sake of consistency. Sashi made his bed by not taking one of the top tier QBs. Taking Wentz or Watson would of saved his job because it would of made sense it building around that young potential QB. Hue was given a free pass. All he had to do is actually coach up some players and not be an asshat to the media but he screwed that up with his ego. Jimmy bright a business type mentality to the Browns. If you hire a GM ot store manager to run your store or business and they are no producing, why hang on to them? I could see if the browns were hiring legit guys and we were seeing success translating/materializing on the field but it’s not happening. It be different if Haslam was pulling a Gilbert and letting go of good and well respected GMs that other teams wanted but the Browns FO has been completely the opposite

This has been discussed ad nauseum, no need to rehash it, but I disagree.

[buno67]

22 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

This has been discussed ad nauseum, no need to rehash it, but I disagree.

Do you think the likes of Chud, Shurmur, or Pettine would of gotten any better if they were given 4 years instead of two or even one? They were all pretty awful. What has hue done to make you think he deserves to see a 3rd season Or say Lombardi/Banner, Farmer, sashi? I think Sashi maybe but those other guys were pretty awful. 

You talk about this cycle but does it make sense to hold onto those guys? This browns have been plagued by insanity that they keep doing the same thing but except different results. Browns bring in a new FO and they believe they can be successful with  QB 3/4 in the draft and sign a vet QB that no one wants. That has been their QB solution since TimCouch era ended. Or the idea of let’s trade down from elite talent because we think we’re smarter than everyone else. Again a couple of FOs have played that card and hasn’t worked. 

Until someone proves their worth, there is no reason to hang on to garbage. A cheetah doesn’t change its spots. You look at the FO ppl the browns have fired and the coaches they have fired, they have not gone on to else where to be successful in equal positions

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

6 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Do you think the likes of Chud, Shurmur, or Pettine would of gotten any better if they were given 4 years instead of two or even one? They were all pretty awful. What has hue done to make you think he deserves to see a 3rd season Or say Lombardi/Banner, Farmer, sashi? I think Sashi maybe but those other guys were pretty awful. 

I would have kept Shurmur and Heckert and dumped Holmgren. Chud and Banner as well, they were only given a year. Obviously Sashi.

6 minutes ago, buno67 said:

You talk about this cycle but does it make sense to hold onto those guys? This browns have been plagued by insanity that they keep doing the same thing but except different results.

Not it seeing the irony here huh?

6 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Browns bring in a new FO and they believe they can be successful with  QB 3/4 in the draft and sign a vet QB that no one wants. That has been their QB solution since TimCouch era ended.

They haven't had a a chance at qb 1 until last year because we constantly fielded treadmill teams because no one had the vision to look farther than the end of their nose.

6 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Or the idea of let’s trade down from elite talent because we think we’re smarter than everyone else. Again a couple of FOs have played that card and hasn’t worked. 

Trading down is done because you aren't any smarter.  The concept has been explained dozens of times and you either refuse to acknowledge facts or are just unable to understand them.  You'd think a Browns fan would understand that top 10 picks bust as well....

6 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Until someone proves their worth, there is no reason to hang on to garbage. A cheetah doesn’t change its spots. You look at the FO ppl the browns have fired and the coaches they have fired, they have not gone on to else where to be successful in equal positions

He same can be said for failed coaches with any team, what's your point?

But nah, you're right.  I'm sure 1-2 years is plenty of time and totally reasonable.

[big poppa pump]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^,

 

It really is an interesting topic.  On one hand it is crazy to continue to fire ppl after giving them only 2 years or less to succeed.  And continuing on that path, it is crazy to not have continuity, and also putting square pegs in round holes, after drafting kids for certain offensive or defensive schemes, then hiring a new coach that runs something different.

But is continuity, just for continuity sake worth it?  If it is apparent that a coach does not appear to have what it takes, then do you keep him?  I think we all had high hopes for Hue Jackson.  He was number 1 on many people's list to become a head coach.  He has not even come close to showing that he can be any good.      

Have any of the guys Haslam fired gone on to show a great amount of success somewhere else?  Shurmur is looking good as a co-ordinator, but is anyone convinced he will be a great HC the second time around?

It really is 50-50 iyam.

I want continuity, stability, etc.... but I also want the right people in place.                                               

[Aztec Hammer]

The Darnold/Rosen dynamic really is interesting. I'm sure each would rather play in New York for the Giants. If they both come out, one is resigning the other to the Browns. They're supposedly pals, so I wouldn't be surprised if they've talked together about it. Maybe they'll be in together and both stay in school.

If so, just trade down and take Mayfield.

[big poppa pump]

4 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

The Darnold/Rosen dynamic really is interesting. I'm sure each would rather play in New York for the Giants. If they both come out, one is resigning the other to the Browns. They're supposedly pals, so I wouldn't be surprised if they've talked together about it. Maybe they'll be in together and both stay in school.

If so, just trade down and take Mayfield.

Probably have to take him 1 overall.  I wouldn't have a problem with that.

[Dogbite]

If I am not about to let some entitled whinny punk kid dictate who we draft. I would select Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen 1st overall and tell them they are playing or they will rot until they sign. Screw this by passing on the most talented player to take a less talented player to play it safe garbage. You do not cater to the punk you do not try to sell him on anything you do not woo him for any reason other than the normal draft stuff. You draft him and tell him ink to paper or sit and watch your career die.

[buno67]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I would have kept Shurmur and Heckert and dumped Holmgren. Chud and Banner as well, they were only given a year. Obviously Sashi.

Not it seeing the irony here huh?

They haven't had a a chance at qb 1 until last year because we constantly fielded treadmill teams because no one had the vision to look farther than the end of their nose.

Trading down is done because you aren't any smarter.  The concept has been explained dozens of times and you either refuse to acknowledge facts or are just unable to understand them.  You'd think a Browns fan would understand that top 10 picks bust as well....

He same can be said for failed coaches with any team, what's your point?

But nah, you're right.  I'm sure 1-2 years is plenty of time and totally reasonable.

Yea that could be the irony but I’m not going to sit back and hope stupid turns smart. Hue hasn’t shown any ability to make a QB progressive or develop  basicallly every QB he has touched he has regressed. Does that give you a vote of confidence to give him a #1 overall pick

shurmur was a joke and Chud was awful

you always have a chance at QB1. Just be aggressive and go get him. Don’t wait for the QB to find you, go get him. Lucky for the browns it might finally workout this year. You can see other teams see the QB they like and they go out and get them a la the Rams with Goff. 

Yea we know and understand the idea of the trade down. It has burned the browns more often. Sure looks great they traded out of Wentz, Zeke, or Bosa. Looked great trading out from Jones. 

1-2 years truly isn’t enough but when coaches aren’t showing competent coaching why keep them. Beginning of the season no one wanted Hue fired. Yet he coached his way into wanting to be fired by the fan base. Can we trust his judgement on picking an OC or being involved in picking the QB. 

[Aztec Hammer]

40 minutes ago, Dogbite said:

If I am not about to let some entitled whinny punk kid dictate who we draft. I would select Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen 1st overall and tell them they are playing or they will rot until they sign. Screw this by passing on the most talented player to take a less talented player to play it safe garbage. You do not cater to the punk you do not try to sell him on anything you do not woo him for any reason other than the normal draft stuff. You draft him and tell him ink to paper or sit and watch your career die.

You can't draft a player that doesn't enter the draft. Both of them have the option to stay in school if they really wish to avoid the Browns this year.

For what it's worth, neither have said anything disparaging about the Browns publicly or stated they don't want to play for us. It's probably what they're thinking, because after all, who would want to play for the Browns if they were a coveted prospect? But the fact is neither have said anything publicly; it's all 'sources' at this point.

Maybe we should hold off on anointing either one of them as an entitled, whiny punk until they have made it clear they do not wish to play for the Browns.

[dawgdish]

15 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Yea that could be the irony but I’m not going to sit back and hope stupid turns smart. Hue hasn’t shown any ability to make a QB progressive or develop  basicallly every QB he has touched he has regressed. Does that give you a vote of confidence to give him a #1 overall pick

Yep. I was preaching continuity for most of the season, but really, if Hue couldn't even improve a little bit, to, let's say 3-4 wins and have Kizer looking better at the end of the season than at the start of it, what has he really shown to merit another go at it. Yes, Sashi made some horrendous roster decisions that didn't help the cause, but a halfway decent coach can still stumble into a few victories here and there. Especially now that Sashi is gone (thank god), the "keep Hue around for continuity" argument holds less weight. Dorsey is in there, and the smart thing for Haslam to do would be to let him hire a HC who reports to the GM, not the owner. Otherwise there will continue to be fractures and pissing contests and Hue will probably be out next year anyway, so this whole thing will be delayed by another year.

[buno67]

I think this might be the first time since the return that browns could let the GM pick the coach and the QB in the same offseason

[Bonanza23]

3 hours ago, big poppa pump said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^,

 

It really is an interesting topic.  On one hand it is crazy to continue to fire ppl after giving them only 2 years or less to succeed.  And continuing on that path, it is crazy to not have continuity, and also putting square pegs in round holes, after drafting kids for certain offensive or defensive schemes, then hiring a new coach that runs something different.

But is continuity, just for continuity sake worth it?  If it is apparent that a coach does not appear to have what it takes, then do you keep him?  I think we all had high hopes for Hue Jackson.  He was number 1 on many people's list to become a head coach.  He has not even come close to showing that he can be any good.      

Have any of the guys Haslam fired gone on to show a great amount of success somewhere else?  Shurmur is looking good as a co-ordinator, but is anyone convinced he will be a great HC the second time around?

It really is 50-50 iyam.

I want continuity, stability, etc.... but I also want the right people in place.                                               

I agree completely. I’m honestly not sad any of the qbs we’ve fired over the years. Shurmur was complete crap. Please people look up shurmur and quotes and see what an idiot he was. The only two I would have liked to see more of were Mangini and Butch “gut feeling “ Davis. ONLY if they would have gave up their GM title. GMing led to their downfall.