2018 Draftable QB Discussion

[Aztec Hammer]

8 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Vick was more talented athletically, but Vick is about as good of a comp as I can think of.

The problem is the league figured did out how to beat Mike Vick already.

There's nothing about Jackson's passing ability that suggests to me he is a good long term QB prospect. He throws a really nice deep ball but I don't see a natural passer at all. He's run first, slow to go through reads in his gimmick offense and not accurate. He's also rail thin. 

54%, 56% and 60% in a college offense full of layups because you're so clearly better than everyone else that has to account for your insane running ability. Even if his receivers do like to drop the ball, that's not accurate enough.

I can envision a situation where he finds some early success on a great team like Jacksonville, where he can use his special running skills, always play with a lead and not have to play a conventional, pressure filled game of football. But even then it will be fleeting.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 hours ago, brownie man said:

Yeah throw him in jail 

Vick was killing it before he went away 

and went to the pro bowl when he got back too

honestly Lamar is just as fast 

and he’s got a cannon as well 

So did RGIII, how'd that work out?

Lamar Jackson will be awesome for the bros who still play Madden.  He may even win a few games early in his career.  

I'll take a guy whose play style has shown to win Super Bowls and still be a viable starter in the league at 30.

[Kiwibrown]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

So did RGIII, how'd that work out?

Lamar Jackson will be awesome for the bros who still play Madden.  He may even win a few games early in his career.  

I'll take a guy whose play style has shown to win Super Bowls and still be a viable starter in the league at 30.

who you got?

I am Darnold, Rosen, Baker. 

I don't want a midget and I think Darnold is the best in chaos. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

who you got?

I am Darnold, Rosen, Baker. 

I don't want a midget and I think Darnold is the best in chaos. 

Same right now.

Darnold looks like he could be “the guy” for a long time.  He does a lot of things well.

[Bonanza23]

6 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

There's nothing about Jackson's passing ability that suggests to me he is a good long term QB prospect. He throws a really nice deep ball but I don't see a natural passer at all. He's run first, slow to go through reads in his gimmick offense and not accurate. He's also rail thin. 

54%, 56% and 60% in a college offense full of layups because you're so clearly better than everyone else that has to account for your insane running ability. Even if his receivers do like to drop the ball, that's not accurate enough.

I can envision a situation where he finds some early success on a great team like Jacksonville, where he can use his special running skills, always play with a lead and not have to play a conventional, pressure filled game of football. But even then it will be fleeting.

This

[Aztec Hammer]

Went in again with another long watch of Darnold and Rosen. It reiterated many of the opinions I already had but I thought there were still one or two interesting new things I personally got from it.

Firstly, and perhaps most importantly for us. I really like both QBs. Short of both of them staying in school, I believe we are going to have the best and most talented QB we've had since the return.

Going to the basic analysis, as I say, it was much of the same information for me. They are very different prospects with both holding fantastic qualities and traits in their own right. With both styles absolutely being applicable to a top tier NFL QB. Sam Darnold's base qualities can be summed up fairly as physically strong, big, athletic and clutch with an even-keeled personality that correlates positively with successful NFL QBs. Josh Rosen's base qualities stand out in their pro-readiness, with a beautiful set of mechanics and wonderful accuracy in all types of throws.

That's two different styles of Quarterback, both with easy comparisons that can be found to prove their ability to be successful in the NFL.

Now here's where I found it interesting. Within those base styles, there were some nuances that one guy had, that you'd actually think would belong to the other.

Pocket presence for example. It's going to be found most in the pro-ready guy with the nice mechanics, who takes snap from under center in a pro style system, surely? Nope. And I believe this is a major oversight in the public and media narrative of this 'Battle of LA QBs'. Sam Darnold absolutely has better pocket presence than Josh Rosen. That's not to say he has better manipulation of the defense from within the pocket, in terms of moving safeties and some of the tricks of the trade that belong to elite pro QBs. I'm strictly talking awareness of his place in the pocket, movement around him, and when a pocket is breaking apart. Darnold has eyes in the back of his head. It's innate and brilliant to watch at times. He's not always consistent with it, but most of the time he's moving away from the threat almost simultaneously as the threat appears. Rosen on the other hand, does not quite have the pocket presence that he is made out to have. I was actually quite disappointed in his lack of awareness for the rush at times and his really limited mobility even within the pocket. I'm going to sound like a certain draftnik we're not fond of in here, but I expected more given his tennis background!

But now to flip it and give Josh Rosen some props for something that perhaps is unexpected from him. Hanging tough and willingly taking a hit if that's what it takes to make the throw. One might think that's more likely to be a trait found in the big, strong and powerful guy. And whilst it does ring true in the case of Darnold, it also does for Rosen. He might not have ideal bulk but he's definitely tough. He invariably takes the hit to try and make the big throw behind a dreadful line. And he keeps the mechanics intact at the same time. It's impressive.

I have long held the opinion that Darnold is a better prospect than Rosen. They're each not perfect; Darnold's funky release leaves me with some worry whilst Rosen's questionable decision making under pressure probably stand out as the main with each guy. But the positives far outweigh the negatives with both of them.

I still hold the belief that Sam Darnold would suit us down to the ground in the AFC North as a big, strong guy with a great combo of arm and legs, but also the mental capacity to process the game quickly at speed and make the clutch plays in key situations. But the more I watch, the more relaxed I am about the possibility of him staying in school, because Josh Rosen is about as secure a consolation prize as you could hope for in a draft.

[Aztec Hammer]

Talk coming out that Rosen is sitting out their bowl game. That would seemingly suggest he's entering the draft.

[bruceb]

On 12/20/2017 at 4:33 PM, Aztec Hammer said:

I still hold the belief that Sam Darnold would suit us down to the ground in the AFC North as a big, strong guy with a great combo of arm and legs, but also the mental capacity to process the game quickly at speed and make the clutch plays in key situations. But the more I watch, the more relaxed I am about the possibility of him staying in school, because Josh Rosen is about as secure a consolation prize as you could hope for in a draft.

Great post!

Ty.

[Dawgpoun8017]

http://es.pn/2pnQSep

[MWil23]

13 minutes ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

http://es.pn/2pnQSep

I prefer Darnold anyway, but I’d call his bluff. Fine, go back to UCLA and turn down millions in guaranteed money.

I’d love a Manning/Rivers 2.0 situation and we still get Darnold plus a LOT of draft capital in return.

[Aztec Hammer]

This is exactly what I said would happen. We're reaping what we sowed. Dysfunction on another level. The worst thing is that talent wise, and through sheer volume of draft picks, we have a much better situation than the Giants. But the public and media narrative is so strongly nailed in place through year after year of incomparable ineptitude. The casual fan or prospect would so much rather go and play for New York or anyone, than the Browns.

The worst case scenario is both of them staying in school. I didn't think Rosen would do it and hopefully he doesn't, but that doesn't sound promising. I've thought for a long time that Darnold will stay in school to avoid us. 

Once one of them decides to stay, that basically confirms the other to Cleveland. So they'll probably react to that and both stay.

I seriously give up if we can't even get one of the two top QBs because they hate the idea of playing for the Browns that much.

[dawgattack]

42 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

This is exactly what I said would happen. We're reaping what we sowed. Dysfunction on another level. The worst thing is that talent wise, and through sheer volume of draft picks, we have a much better situation than the Giants. But the public and media narrative is so strongly nailed in place through year after year of incomparable ineptitude. The casual fan or prospect would so much rather go and play for New York or anyone, than the Browns.

The worst case scenario is both of them staying in school. I didn't think Rosen would do it and hopefully he doesn't, but that doesn't sound promising. I've thought for a long time that Darnold will stay in school to avoid us. 

Once one of them decides to stay, that basically confirms the other to Cleveland. So they'll probably react to that and both stay.

I seriously give up if we can't even get one of the two top QBs because they hate the idea of playing for the Browns that much.

 Blowing a team up and tearing it down to the studs comes with a lot of risks. Darnold and Rosen both being unavailable to the Browns (via going back to college or pulling an Eli) would be a complete catastrophe. The only thing worse I can think of is Rosen becoming a Brown and hardly ever playing for us because of his concussions.

[sdrawkcab321]

I don’t blame him for a second. 

[bosko1616]

5 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

I don’t blame him for a second. 

Me either. It’s our own fault 

[bosko1616]

So who’s starting the Darnold vs Allen vs Mayfield thread