The 2023 Draft Thread - We're picking #7

[101Raider]

11 hours ago, BayRaider said:

I have criticized Hooker and Levis a lot but if we draft them I’ll just have to convince myself they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. 

In my case, I’ll say the same about Richardson.

After so many years of feeling like I’ve been sucker punched in the draft, my expectations are severely humbled. All I’m asking is please no crazy WTF reaches.

[BobbyPhil1781]

33 minutes ago, Devilshark69 said:

If it pushed him down to 7, I’m in. Biggest game, best defense, biggest stage? He excelled. The end!👍😎

I'm OK w/ anything that pushes Stroud down to 7 including these morons lying about trivial nonsense. If he tested bad, yeah, that's a problem but his ability to play football at a high level isn't a problem so whatever.

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

I'm OK w/ anything that pushes Stroud down to 7 including these morons lying about trivial nonsense. If he tested bad, yeah, that's a problem but his ability to play football at a high level isn't a problem so whatever.

I've never understood the knocking some of these guys take that get taken seriously. 

If a guy has legit character concerns, yes, those are problematic. 

If a guy tests poorly athletically, yes, that could be a problem. 

But cognitive stuff? We're talking about jocks, not a class full of Myron Rolle's. 

Stroud doesn't do it for me based on what I've watched on the field. He does it for some people. That's perfectly ok, not everyone is going to have the same opinion on a player on the field. 

But some of the knitpicky stuff people take as gospel gets outrageous, imo. It's goofy to me. He didn't go bend the knee at the Manning Academy? Big whoop. He scored low on some sort of cognitive test? Hasn't shown to be a problem within the context of playing football for him yet.

So much of it reminds me of dealing with OPM while getting into the feds- your resume is worthless until it lands on a human's desk, and to get there, it has to beat some nefarious algorithm of key words and phrases or it's tossed in the trash. While it's not so entirely removed from the job function as to be utterly useless (ie: if your resume has qualifications on it, it will inevitably hit at least some of the algorithm's buzz words), it's a poor method that rejects countless candidates that may be better suited for the actual job. While testing isn't so entirely removed from playing football, they've tried to microscope things down to an impossible science and often use it as a be-all-end-all. It's not being the best at the job/position, it's checking vague boxes and jumping through silly hoops. 

Like you said, trivial nonsense. Bench, 40,  statistical production/supporting talent, eye test, and general background check/interview results for me all day. The Wonderlic, the S whatever, high jump, broad jump, etc, is stuff I typically ignore. A player is almost never in a standing position, crouching slightly, and jumping straight up. They're definitely not doing broad jumps on the field. And I'm not expecting them to cure cancer or create a car engine that runs on will power of the driver.

Are they strong and fast enough to play in the NFL, have they shown they could do well at the next level down, are they trouble off the field, are they mechanically sound or relatively so for the position, and are they a locker room for/personable. Beyond that, and even including it, it's all a big gamble either way. 

[raidr4life]

8 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I love the idea of moving around and grabbing extra picks but it never seems to happen.  I got a strange feeling Jacobs is gone and we are going to grab Bijan in the first.  If we do I would want to trade down into the late teens or 20's to grab him.

That would be hilariously stupid make a hole use a high draft pick to fill it just doesn't make much sense.

[NYRaider]

I'm praying that CJ Stroud somehow makes it to #7.

[drfrey13]

39 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

That would be hilariously stupid make a hole use a high draft pick to fill it just doesn't make much sense.

Assuming you can get a 2nd for Jacobs it is not a bad situation.  We would get a long term solution for cheap and I believe Bijan has more talent than Jacobs.  He is Jacobs but much harder to catch from behind.  I believe Jacobs comes back down to earth next year while Bijan has the talent to be a top back year after year.   The return on picks could be big.  Trading back would still allow us to fill a few holes using day 2 picks and the cap savings could allow for another starting FA or two.  You have to remember that not only do we have a rookie starting RB instead of a franchised one but we should also be able to find 2 starters on rookie contracts with the extra day 2 picks.  If we hit on all 3 that could be a savings of $15+ million per year over the next 4 years.  Once again a trade like this would depend on what we do with the return.

[BackinBlack]

3 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Assuming you can get a 2nd for Jacobs it is not a bad situation.  We would get a long term solution for cheap and I believe Bijan has more talent than Jacobs.  He is Jacobs but much harder to catch from behind.  I believe Jacobs comes back down to earth next year while Bijan has the talent to be a top back year after year.   The return on picks could be big.  Trading back would still allow us to fill a few holes using day 2 picks and the cap savings could allow for another starting FA or two.  You have to remember that not only do we have a rookie starting RB instead of a franchised one but we should also be able to find 2 starters on rookie contracts with the extra day 2 picks.  If we hit on all 3 that could be a savings of $15+ million per year over the next 4 years.  Once again a trade like this would depend on what we do with the return.

why do we as Raider fans always over rate our own non elite players . . . then finally get a great player and dog on him.

Jacobs has been amazing for us. With some brutal Olines too, his average yards before contact are constantly bottom of the league yet he puts up numbers for us.

Jacobs is a top 5 back in the NFL. He doesnt have elite speed, but to say Bijan has more talent then Jacobs who just led the league in rushing is crazy imo. 
 

[reddevil]

If the draft goes:

1. Young

2. Anderson

If the FO is as enamoured with Stroud as being reported, how much do you think would be enough to move up to 3 to get him? And how much would you give up?

Edited April 20, 2023 by reddevil

[BobbyPhil1781]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

I've never understood the knocking some of these guys take that get taken seriously. 

If a guy has legit character concerns, yes, those are problematic. 

If a guy tests poorly athletically, yes, that could be a problem. 

But cognitive stuff? We're talking about jocks, not a class full of Myron Rolle's. 

Stroud doesn't do it for me based on what I've watched on the field. He does it for some people. That's perfectly ok, not everyone is going to have the same opinion on a player on the field. 

But some of the knitpicky stuff people take as gospel gets outrageous, imo. It's goofy to me. He didn't go bend the knee at the Manning Academy? Big whoop. He scored low on some sort of cognitive test? Hasn't shown to be a problem within the context of playing football for him yet.

So much of it reminds me of dealing with OPM while getting into the feds- your resume is worthless until it lands on a human's desk, and to get there, it has to beat some nefarious algorithm of key words and phrases or it's tossed in the trash. While it's not so entirely removed from the job function as to be utterly useless (ie: if your resume has qualifications on it, it will inevitably hit at least some of the algorithm's buzz words), it's a poor method that rejects countless candidates that may be better suited for the actual job. While testing isn't so entirely removed from playing football, they've tried to microscope things down to an impossible science and often use it as a be-all-end-all. It's not being the best at the job/position, it's checking vague boxes and jumping through silly hoops. 

Like you said, trivial nonsense. Bench, 40,  statistical production/supporting talent, eye test, and general background check/interview results for me all day. The Wonderlic, the S whatever, high jump, broad jump, etc, is stuff I typically ignore. A player is almost never in a standing position, crouching slightly, and jumping straight up. They're definitely not doing broad jumps on the field. And I'm not expecting them to cure cancer or create a car engine that runs on will power of the driver.

Are they strong and fast enough to play in the NFL, have they shown they could do well at the next level down, are they trouble off the field, are they mechanically sound or relatively so for the position, and are they a locker room for/personable. Beyond that, and even including it, it's all a big gamble either way. 

Quinn is just getting demolished by everyone about what he said. If CJ has character concerns, he has hid them better than anyone I've ever seen in my entire life. The kid is so well spoken, humble, and a very hard worker. That is so weird to even read. Not sure I've even heard of that test he didn't score well on. Not to say it doesn't hold some water but not sure where it even came from. No problem w/ you or anyone not liking Stroud. He's not a Trevor Lawrence type where he's generational so you will have people that do not like him as a prospect. Just don't like him for good reasons and not lie like these morons are doing lol. 

[raidr4life]

18 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

why do we as Raider fans always over rate our own non elite players . . . then finally get a great player and dog on him.

Jacobs has been amazing for us. With some brutal Olines too, his average yards before contact are constantly bottom of the league yet he puts up numbers for us.

Jacobs is a top 5 back in the NFL. He doesnt have elite speed, but to say Bijan has more talent then Jacobs who just led the league in rushing is crazy imo. 
 

Exactly Jacobs is special because he can make his own yards coming into the league we had the worst run blocking line in the NFL and he still was the 7th and 8th leading rusher in his first two seasons, before this past season I predicted that if the OL was even average at run blocking Jacobs would go off because he could actually build up some steam. I'm sorry but you guys who think a star RB is easily replaced will be sorry when he's gone. He's 25, a 3 year extension that you could get out of in 2 years would be the smart choice also gives him a chance at another contract before he's 30 if he hasn't slowed down. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

29 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

why do we as Raider fans always over rate our own non elite players . . . then finally get a great player and dog on him.

All fan bases do this just like all fan bases think Person X is out to get them. Seriously. Follow college football recruiting and you'll see "oh you had them as 4 stars until they committed to School Y and now you only have them as 3 b/c you hate us".

**** is soooo corny. As much as it is that so many members of this fan base think the NFL is out to get this organization lol

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Quinn is just getting demolished by everyone about what he said. If CJ has character concerns, he has hid them better than anyone I've ever seen in my entire life. The kid is so well spoken, humble, and a very hard worker. That is so weird to even read. Not sure I've even heard of that test he didn't score well on. Not to say it doesn't hold some water but not sure where it even came from. No problem w/ you or anyone not liking Stroud. He's not a Trevor Lawrence type where he's generational so you will have people that do not like him as a prospect. Just don't like him for good reasons and not lie like these morons are doing lol. 

Stroud isn’t generational but there’s nothing special about the guy. He’s a Premium Goff. Could be a Top 10 QB but he isn’t going to be a superstar. Richardson and Young both have superstar traits. I would still love to have Stroud, would be thrilled to draft him. But Young is my #1 and Richardson my #2. I do have them all neck and neck though. 

[raidr4life]

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Stroud isn’t generational but there’s nothing special about the guy. He’s a Premium Goff. Could be a Top 10 QB but he isn’t going to be a superstar. Richardson and Young both have superstar traits. I would still love to have Stroud, would be thrilled to draft him. But Young is my #1 and Richardson my #2. I do have them all neck and neck though. 

What are these Super star traits exactly did Peyton Manning have those traits or Brady? Because all I know if Richardson hurts an ankle or knee there goes his whole game.

[RaidersAreOne]

T MINUS ONE WEEK.

[BayRaider]

45 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

What are these Super star traits exactly did Peyton Manning have those traits or Brady? Because all I know if Richardson hurts an ankle or knee there goes his whole game.

Manning had a laser arm, was 6’5” and probably the smartest QB to ever play football. Intelligence and cognition 100% matters for QB more than any position in professional sports. Manning also had great pocket presence. Discount the Georgia game and Stroud has pretty average pocket presence and is pretty bad under pressure. 

Brady had a much better arm than Stroud and Brady’s Pocket Presence is the best in NFL History, he has an eye in all directions and always calm. But Brady is an unusual prospect and if we compare every prospect to pre-draft Brady, then we can say literally everyone is going to be great. 

This forum acts like one bad thing can’t be said about guys they like. I like Stroud a lot still and would be very happy to draft him. He’s basically my 1c. And in Josh’s scheme he could be a great fit where accuracy trumps all. The question is can he get the timing down. But if you’re sitting here asking me Stroud’s flaws, discounting the Georgia game, he’s a bad play extender, he’s bad under pressure, average pocket presence, average pocket awareness, throwing with anticipation he never really had to do because his WR’s were always open, his arm is solid but would not be Top 10 in the NFL. He can go through progressions but most of his throws were 1st read. To be fair though, most of the QB’s in this class majority of their throws were 1st read except Bryce Young. From an intelligence and going through progression standpoint, Bryce is levels above all of these guys, including Stroud. But he does have some pretty good qualities to him. He’s very accurate. He has solid mechanics. His arm is good enough. The Georgia game showed he can extend plays and has some dog in him. But it’s one game vs 2 years of solid tape. 

And we have the best QB in the league in our division and a Top 6 QB in Herbert. We need our own superstar to even have a chance. Young and Richardson? Possible superstars. Drake Maye and Caleb? Possible superstars. CJ Stroud? Doubtful. Can be pretty dang good, but I don’t see superstar in him. 

With that said, I do think Stroud can be extremely good, a Top 10 QB year in and year out, and should end up being way better than Jimmy G or Derek Carr. It would be refreshing to have Stroud. If we get him, I’ll be extremely satisfied. But at the moment for me it’s Bryce 1a, Richardson 1b, Stroud 1c. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by BayRaider