BetterCallSaul Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 10 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said: you’re kidding? He gets lit up so many times in the pocket because he’s unaware of what’s coming. We may have different definitions of pocket awareness. I guess I view it more as your ability/inability to panic back there. Levis hangs tall against pressure and doesn’t abandon the pocket unnecessarily, which is a huge problem with a lot of QBs. What he doesn’t do well is escape. He can take off and run for 1st downs, but he isn’t exactly Houdini. Pocket presence/awareness I think would be a little different than pocket manipulation, if that makes sense. I’m not a Levis guy, but I think people are dunking on him a little too hard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 6 hours ago, Teen Girl Squad said: Counterpoint is that Levis is pretty old at this point so you'd think he'd have more to show for his work ethic is there was really something there to build on. The big monkey wrench with him is how injured you think he was last season and how much that hindered him from the season prior as a base to build on. I was responding to his likelihood of success in the NFL. I think it's plausible that he didn't reach is collegiate ceiling because other factors like coaching, supporting cast, and injuries. I am mostly just responding to the general Levis criticism with skepticism because I heard (and made) the same arguments against Justin Herbert who was similarly unimpressive his final year at Oregon. Levis has shown he can be consistently accurate--especially on short passes--he has a quick release, and he's very athletic and strong. Richardson has poisoned the well on Levis because people view them both as projects and Richardson is more athletic, and thus, has a higher ceiling. I do not think it's that simple. I think Levis is less of a project. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedandPewterReturns Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 I thought Levis interviewed at the podium poorly. Didn't sound intelligent nor mature. Richardson did. Richardson is younger by 4 years. Has more to work with and better chance of hitting his ceiling. Levis to me - didn't show much growth leaving penn state to kentucky. Levis does and still has poor pocket awareness and vision. This isn't me saying Richardson is worth a first round pick. In my eyes - neither are bc they failed to consistently show the ability to master the basics to playing QB at the NFL level. Both were inconsistent. Richardson is 20 and last year was his first year starting and obviously needs grooming. However - he left bc the NFL scouts think that there may be some untapped potential. If he went back and played another year at FLA and didn't show tremendous improvement - then his stock would be low in 2024. Levis is 24 years old. I'm not sure how much more you can get out of him. I think the things he struggles with are what makes you a bust at the next level. He might be another Blaine Gabbert - strong arm with the Josh Allen Like athleticism. However - he seems arrogant and he didn't really achieve anything in college either. Quite frankly i am shocked to see his name as a first rounder. At the end of the day - I think Levis can and should drop deep into the draft - potentially early round 2. Richardson - I'm not sure honestly. I think he goes 4 to Indy unless they do something to land Lamar Jackson (unlikely i am sure). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterCallSaul Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 8 hours ago, RedandPewterReturns said: Levis is 24 years old. I'm not sure how much more you can get out of him. He is a QB, not a skill player. His ceiling is infinite, as are all QB’s without severe physical deficiencies. He has more than enough physical tools to be the GOAT. Obviously I don’t think he gets there, but QB’s don’t really have caps on their potential, especially at age 24. It’s 99.9% mental at the QB position. Levis hasn’t demonstrated those qualities yet, but we are seeing QB’s dominate in their late 30’s. It’s preposterous to give up on a prospect at 24 and assume they’re done getting better. And like I said, I wouldn’t draft Levis early. Not a fan of his, but some of the analysis for why people think he’s gonna bust is just silly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 27, 2023 Author Share Posted March 27, 2023 I actually think the Colts are going to take Levis if they keep the pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Not sure if this deserves its own thread but as someone that thinks Bryce Young is by far the #1 QB in this class I'm curious about the naysayers specifically with regards to his height Is it because QBs that tall or close to him rarely find success? or Is it because you think he will be ragdolled into early retirement? Or Both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tso Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: Not sure if this deserves its own thread but as someone that thinks Bryce Young is by far the #1 QB in this class I'm curious about the naysayers specifically with regards to his height Is it because QBs that tall or close to him rarely find success? or Is it because you think he will be ragdolled into early retirement? Or Both For me it's not his height, it's his weight. But yeah, QBs his height are rare, is there a bias there founded on evidence on the field or is it just some antiquated thinking, that's the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 27, 2023 Author Share Posted March 27, 2023 Do you guys consider Hendon Hooker a first round talent like 80% of the Raiders forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texansfan713 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 5 hours ago, NYRaider said: Do you guys consider Hendon Hooker a first round talent like 80% of the Raiders forum? No. 25 years old coming off ACL injury Played in a gimmicky offense at Tennessee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedandPewterReturns Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 12 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said: He is a QB, not a skill player. His ceiling is infinite, as are all QB’s without severe physical deficiencies. He has more than enough physical tools to be the GOAT. Obviously I don’t think he gets there, but QB’s don’t really have caps on their potential, especially at age 24. It’s 99.9% mental at the QB position. Levis hasn’t demonstrated those qualities yet, but we are seeing QB’s dominate in their late 30’s. It’s preposterous to give up on a prospect at 24 and assume they’re done getting better. And like I said, I wouldn’t draft Levis early. Not a fan of his, but some of the analysis for why people think he’s gonna bust is just silly. As a few GM's have stated - first rounders bust not bc of talent but bc they don't have it or maximize it from the neck - up. But to me - I see too much Blaine Gabbert , not enough Josh Allen as a prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedandPewterReturns Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 6 hours ago, General Tso said: For me it's not his height, it's his weight. But yeah, QBs his height are rare, is there a bias there founded on evidence on the field or is it just some antiquated thinking, that's the question. To me - he has everything you look for - MINUS the height /weight. I get it - I'd be concerned about durability. But man when you turn on the tape - elite arm talent, accuracy, athleticism, pocket presence, field vision. I mean we saw how people wanted to nit-pick Joe Burrow's hand size and to be honest - burrow is kinda lean for his frame. So a pinch below 5/11 200 lbs to me isnt a concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 On 3/26/2023 at 4:59 AM, BetterCallSaul said: We may have different definitions of pocket awareness. I guess I view it more as your ability/inability to panic back there. Levis hangs tall against pressure and doesn’t abandon the pocket unnecessarily, which is a huge problem with a lot of QBs. What he doesn’t do well is escape. He can take off and run for 1st downs, but he isn’t exactly Houdini. Pocket presence/awareness I think would be a little different than pocket manipulation, if that makes sense. I’m not a Levis guy, but I think people are dunking on him a little too hard. Levis pocket awareness is horrendous. He’s tough and will get throws last second, that’s encouraging and a plus in pocket presence, but overall his awareness on the field is just abysmal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 5 hours ago, NYRaider said: Do you guys consider Hendon Hooker a first round talent like 80% of the Raiders forum? You already know our forum is mentally challenged. Hooker is a Late 3rd Round Pick at best and Second Stringer in the NFL 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 minute ago, BayRaider said: You already know our forum is mentally challenged. Hooker is a Late 3rd Round Pick at best and Second Stringer in the NFL Hooker's supposedly better than Bryce Young and has Mike Vick level athleticism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterCallSaul Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, RedandPewterReturns said: As a few GM's have stated - first rounders bust not bc of talent but bc they don't have it or maximize it from the neck - up. But to me - I see too much Blaine Gabbert , not enough Josh Allen as a prospect. Blaine Gabbert would run outside of the pocket for no reason. He’s like the opposite of that. Again, chalk me up into the category of thinking he’s not gonna be a good NFL QB, but Gabbert was petrified. If anything, Levis is oblivious to the rush, not scared of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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