J-ALL-DAY Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said: It was a weird response for sure - the Jags' recent history against the Texans at any given time has no bearing on what happens in the next game. Every encounter is different - different coaching staff, different players, different circumstances entirely. It's not like Lawrence has some inherent disadvantage playing against the Texans like it's Pokemon and Houston is super-effective against Jax or something. Some teams own their divisional rivals and it doesn't always make sense...But that has nothing to do with how bad the Texans actually are lol. Lawrence is a good talent but it's becoming clear that's all he is, and there is no shame with that. He had two good games back to back, but overall has been inconsistent. There still is time to change that but right now that's what he's shown to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steins Gate Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 3 hours ago, lancerman said: This is the issue. Lawrence was supposed to be a John Elway, Peyton Manning, and Andrew Luck type of prospect. A guy who was a no brainer fail proof prospect with a floor of above average and ceiling of all time great level. His floor is much lower than a prospect like that should be. If you looked at him without the bias of his college years, he would look like a bust and he'd get the same critcism and evaluation Zach Wilson got. He was supposed to be a guy that you didn't even have to question. Even on a bad team his talent would be evident (Peyton Manning year 1 for instance still was setting the rookie TD record and though he had some kinks with interceptions, his talent was so apparent). He's already not as advertised and he's really the first mega QB prospect of modern era to be like that. Now we are just waiting around to see if he can improve enough to be a serviceable franchise starter instead of a bust. That's not good. Especially for a franchise like the Jaguars that finally got what was supposed to be a lay up at QB and already this early he is a big exception to the rule. Agreed. I don't think Trevor Lawrence was a generational talent to begin with. My definition of generational is defined by a player having some kind of special or elite trait that puts them in to that category. John Elway had elite physical tools. Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck had elite football IQs. Trevor Lawrence was not elite in either of those traits. In his own draft class, Mack Jones had the highest football IQ, I believe Trey Lance had the strongest arm, Justin fields was the most athletic. What Trevor had was the best overall combination of traits (good IQ, strong arm, & good athlete) but not elite in any area. Another poster commented on his tendency to miss high on some throws. He did that in college too. FYI - I would put Joe Burrow as a generational prospect, but that is a different discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 22 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: But that has nothing to do with the Texans not being awful lol. Texans have our number and Trevor has struggled against Lovie’s Tampa 2 in the 3 meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Some teams own their divisional rivals and it doesn't always make sense...But that has nothing to do with how bad the Texans actually are lol. Lawrence is a good talent but it's becoming clear that's all he is, and there is no shame with that. He had two good games back to back, but overall has been inconsistent. There still is time to change that but right now that's what he's shown to be. The Texans have been in literally every game this year. They are better than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said: The Texans have been in literally every game this year. They are better than you think. I hate to agree with this because it flies in the face of my usual "Texans are horrible you gotta fire everyone" position but... this is true, the Texans have been competitive in every game this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, ET80 said: I hate to agree with this because it flies in the face of my usual "Texans are horrible you gotta fire everyone" position but... this is true, the Texans have been competitive in every game this season. Yep. They are a scrappy group. Love Stingley and Pitre on the backend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 26 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said: Texans have our number and Trevor has struggled against Lovie’s Tampa 2 in the 3 meetings. I mean that's fine, but they have been awful. That's not disputable. 23 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said: The Texans have been in literally every game this year. They are better than you think. Sure, they play hard and compete every game. They are still awful and one of the least talented teams in the league. Are you disagreeing with that? The 49ers were in almost every game in 2017 and were 0-9 at one point lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 hour ago, KhanYouDigIt said: Yep. They are a scrappy group. Love Stingley and Pitre on the backend. They run out of gas by the 4th - the talent disparity starts to bubble up late in most games. For all of his flaws, Lovie is building a culture of "all out effort on every snap" here. It's one of the reasons I believe Will Anderson would be a better choice over the top 3 QBs (Young, Stroud, Levis). Adding a finisher/pass rusher like Anderson would improve the entire defense, and the gap between Anderson and any other edge defender is very significant - whereas the gap between Young/Stroud/Levis and tier 2 QBs (Hendon Hooker, DJ Uialeguiei, Tyler Van Dyke) isn't that great. You could feasibily pick up Anderson and still get an up and coming QB you can build around - trying to grab a tier 1 QB will only ensure you're grabbing a player who is nowhere near the caliber of Anderson. Texans aren't in a position to be picky on needs with a top pick - if they end up at 1.1 (which I still think they will be) they should grab the BPA and look for QB with the Cleveland pick. (Or punt on QB with an eye on Caleb Williams, Quinn Ewers or Jaxon Dart in 2024). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 17 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: I mean that's fine, but they have been awful. That's not disputable. Sure, they play hard and compete every game. They are still awful and one of the least talented teams in the league. Are you disagreeing with that? The 49ers were in almost every game in 2017 and were 0-9 at one point lol. If you’re in it to the end in every game with David Mills as your QB, you aren’t awful. Pierce is playing like a top 10 RB. Got Cooks and Nico Collins on the outside, who can win downfield with his size and jump ball ability. Their O-Line shut down our pass rush yesterday. Only time we could touch Mills was when we blitzed or hit him after the whistle. Tunsil and Green should hold down that left side for years to come I would think. Stingley and Pitre can be cornerstone players on the backend. Already playing at a high level as rookies. To say they are awful is a little harsh. They play hard, fundamentally sound football and if they had a slightly more competent QB, they’d be 3-2. Then we would be talking about them differently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 hour ago, KhanYouDigIt said: Texans have our number and Trevor has struggled against Lovie’s Tampa 2 in the 3 meetings. this....does not seem like an effective defense of lawrence lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, -Hope- said: this....does not seem like an effective defense of lawrence lol Am I wrong tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said: If you’re in it to the end in every game with David Mills as your QB, you aren’t awful. Pierce is playing like a top 10 RB. Got Cooks and Nico Collins on the outside, who can win downfield with his size and jump ball ability. Their O-Line shut down our pass rush yesterday. Only time we could touch Mills was when we blitzed or hit him after the whistle. Tunsil and Green should hold down that left side for years to come I would think. Stingley and Pitre can be cornerstone players on the backend. Already playing at a high level as rookies. To say they are awful is a little harsh. They play hard, fundamentally sound football and if they had a slightly more competent QB, they’d be 3-2. Then we would be talking about them differently. They were 4-13 last season and now are 1-3-1. EVERY single team in the league has talent. I never said they don't play hard but how exactly would you categorize a team that has been 5-16-1 in the last 22 games? Go back a year prior and they are 9-28-1 in the last 38 games. The Jags have lost 9 straight to them and majority of those losses came when the Texans were HORRIBLE. Per DVOA, the defensive rankings for the Texans has been 30, 23 and 24. What are we even doing here? The Texans are 1-3-1 and they have played the Broncos, Bears, Chargers, Colts and the Jags. That's one of the easiest schedules to start the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said: Am I wrong tho You can be right and Trevor can still have been awful independently of all that. The Texans schemes weren’t making him throw inaccurate crappy balls. If it was tight windows all day and he was getting picked off via good defensive plays that’s one thing. He was just playing bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 minute ago, lancerman said: You can be right and Trevor can still have been awful independently of all that. The Texans schemes weren’t making him throw inaccurate crappy balls. If it was tight windows all day and he was getting picked off via good defensive plays that’s one thing. He was just playing bad He made one horrendous throw. Did he throw a couple balls high? Absolutely. He also had 7 dropped passes. He was too aggressive instead of taking the short underneath stuff. Like I said before, this isn’t the first time he’s struggled against Tampa 2 and won’t be the last. He was a top 7 QB analytically before the downpour in Philly. He will be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Just now, KhanYouDigIt said: He made one horrendous throw. Did he throw a couple balls high? Absolutely. He also had 7 dropped passes. He was too aggressive instead of taking the short underneath stuff. Like I said before, this isn’t the first time he’s struggled against Tampa 2 and won’t be the last. He was a top 7 QB analytically before the downpour in Philly. He will be ok. He very well may be fine but that has nothing to do with you defending the Texans and using the Jags losing to them nine consecutive times to show they are not awful lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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