Joe Barry'd again

[incognito_man]

15 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

If we wind up replacing Barry with Saleh, it’s prolly going to happen in 2025.  Saleh is going to get a pass for this season due to Rodgers’ injury. Despite the recent drama and ****ty season, firing Saleh would assuredly antagonize Rodgers and who knows what card he pulls (threatening retirement, demands to be released or traded) if that happens.  Barring a defensive collapse down the stretch, Barry has likely saved his job for this year at least. 

Why would firing a defensive coach with a terrible record antagonize Rodgers?!

Quite the opposite. He would RELISH the opportunity to hire his preferred HC

Edited December 6, 2023 by incognito_man

[{Family Ghost}]

24 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

If we wind up replacing Barry with Saleh, it’s prolly going to happen in 2025.  Saleh is going to get a pass for this season due to Rodgers’ injury. Despite the recent drama and ****ty season, firing Saleh would assuredly antagonize Rodgers and who knows what card he pulls (threatening retirement, demands to be released or traded) if that happens.  Barring a defensive collapse down the stretch, Barry has likely saved his job for this year at least. 

I don't know how tied Aaron is to Saleh .. in his talk with McAfee yesterday it sure sounded like he left the door open to change if necessary.  He might get a big say in that area.  I think Salah is on shaky ground. 

[thrILL!]

1 hour ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I don't know how tied Aaron is to Saleh .. in his talk with McAfee yesterday it sure sounded like he left the door open to change if necessary.  He might get a big say in that area.  I think Salah is on shaky ground. 

I only saw the clips of him talking about Jordan Love from his appearance on the show and read some of what he said defending Wilson.  Maybe the comments about the failure of the organization per the leaks were a shot across the bow at Saleh. He was praiseworthy about him when he signed and supportive since then.  

I wouldn’t put it past his ego to try and have a say in who he would want as HC. It just seems like a dramatic shift in structuring of the team for likely only a year with him.  Maybe he wouldn’t give a F viewing next season as a one and done and let the Jets FO deal with whatever comes afterward. That just seems like a tall task even for him. 

[thrILL!]

1 hour ago, incognito_man said:

Why would firing a defensive coach with a terrible record antagonize Rodgers?!

Quite the opposite. He would RELISH the opportunity to hire his preferred HC

I guess it depends on if they’d fire Saleh yet retain Hackett to appease Rodgers. They’d be out of their mind to promote Hackett to HC.  Hiring a puppet HC and forcing Hackett on him as OC sounds like a recipe for disaster but as it’s the Jets, maybe that’s a strong possibility after all lol.

All while we retain Barry and Saleh goes elsewhere and flourishes as DC again. That’s prolly inescapable at this point. 

[Mr Bad Example]

3 hours ago, turf toe said:

the only fail with this is that unless the opposing offense screws up, they can and have sustained long drives against Barry, even if they don't score points, your defenses wears down, one of the reasons we fail to win is that we can't hold a lead in the last parts of games, imo making a offense fight for every yard has better results.

I get your point in that less big chunk plays should amount to more wins, but only if ya can also limit the run and short ball passing, other wise your offense can't get on the field, your defense is gassed, and ya go home dejected😉

I'm talking specifically about 3rd and 20, not running pillow-soft zones as a defensive philosophy.

[Brit Pack]

3 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Probably all of them... I think the problem a lot of people have is that they just sit there and watch Green Bay and wonder "why are we doing this?"

But it's really HARD to complete a 20-yard pass in the NFL. Generally if you drop into a soft zone, prevent the long ball and keep everything in front of you. You're going to succeed in those situations. For all everyone lcomplains about prevent defenses. It's pretty rare. A team marches up the field with 4 20-yard completions... It's a grind.

 

I think this strategy is something that works most of the time, even though it's frustrating to watch. It just becomes head-exploding when it doesn't work

I reviewed the KC game and I wanted to see is Barry always passive in 3rd and long situations.

This was initially 2nd and 20, Barry brings 4 and Mahomes runs for 9. In 3rd and 11 situation Green Bay look like they are bringing 6 but drop two and Mahomes buys time, is almost sacked but gets it to a MVS who opens up.



This is the frustrating 3rd and 18 where Barry famously brings 3.

I then picked 4 other games, Seattle vs. Dallas, Detroit vs NO, San Fran vs Philly, and Cleveland vs LAR, they all had high scores and I wanted to see how other DCs attacked 3rd and over 10's, particularly in situations where the offence actually got the 1st down. My focus was on whether were they are as passive as Barry is accused of being. 

No other team did what Barry does and only rush 3. They all rushed 4 or more, or gave the look to bring the house and dropped 7, or brought the blitz. As shown above Barry does do the same, not sure how often though, in the KC game the Packers faced 3rd and long twice, one time he pressured the other time he didn't. 

Some offences attack 3rd and long by throwing out a quick screen and getting blockers out, thus neutralising any aggressive front, other times the oline stay in to block and a QB has to buy time for a WR to get open.

 Seattle rush four but one guy is aligned really wide. Dallas completes this on TE screen.

Detroit look like they are bringing the house but only rush 4, Carr holds it and completes it down the field for 30 yards.

Detroit look like they are going to bring the house again, bring 4 and drop the rest into coverage, Carr holds and completes for 33 yards this time

3rd and 19 and Hurts gets the ball out quick, they run a screen and get the 1st down

San Fran lined up like they did in the last 3rd and long but bring a double linebacker blitz and Hurts completes it for the 1st down.

Rams look like they are bringing 6, back out, Falco holds it and completes it down the field for a 1st down

 

[Arthur Penske]

 

[Old Guy]

5 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Why would firing a defensive coach with a terrible record antagonize Rodgers?!

Quite the opposite. He would RELISH the opportunity to hire his preferred HC

Only reason I can think of is this. If they bring in an offensive coach, other than Hackett, Rodgers isn't going to be able to run the show the way he sees fit. 

[Packerraymond]

31 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

 

Fangio system rose to power with a league full of elite QBs and a playcalling style to feed them the ball early and often with downfield attacks.

We're now in an entirely different era of football. One with a flux of average to bad QBs and offensive playcallers trying to hide them.

If Joe was willing to keep up with the times with his scheme, Id be happy to keep him, but he's not any sort of innovator, he soaked up the Dungy/Kiffin system and brought it to Detroit. He then learned the Wade Phillips system in San Diego and brought it to Washington, now we have the Rams LB coach who learned the Fangio system and brought it to GB.

There's no reason to extend Barry, he's served his time here.

[Arthur Penske]

14 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Fangio system rose to power with a league full of elite QBs and a playcalling style to feed them the ball early and often with downfield attacks.

We're now in an entirely different era of football. One with a flux of average to bad QBs and offensive playcallers trying to hide them.

If Joe was willing to keep up with the times with his scheme, Id be happy to keep him, but he's not any sort of innovator, he soaked up the Dungy/Kiffin system and brought it to Detroit. He then learned the Wade Phillips system in San Diego and brought it to Washington, now we have the Rams LB coach who learned the Fangio system and brought it to GB.

There's no reason to extend Barry, he's served his time here.

I wish. If defense plays at this level despite his crap, he’s gonna get an extension and we’re going to Be serving the extended sentence. 

[thrILL!]

2 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

I wish. If defense plays at this level despite his crap, he’s gonna get an extension and we’re going to Be serving the extended sentence. 

[Rainmaker90]

I’m considering this the defensive thread 

 

There Wyatt is again. I just haven’t noticed it 

[Old Guy]

12 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said:

I’m considering this the defensive thread 

 

There Wyatt is again. I just haven’t noticed it 

Yeah, Wyatt is a handful on passing downs. I've not seen him stand out as much when teams are running it. Gary and Kenny both bringing it is really useful for Barry. 

[coachbuns]

7 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Yeah, Wyatt is a handful on passing downs. I've not seen him stand out as much when teams are running it. Gary and Kenny both bringing it is really useful for Barry. 

Just wish he'd do it more often and let them go .. 3 man rushes suck.

[Old Guy]

5 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

Just wish he'd do it more often and let them go .. 3 man rushes suck.

Yeah, giving a guy like Mahomes all that time is a good way to get beat. We got lucky.