State of the Steelers

[3rivers]

1 hour ago, bigben07MVP said:

From PFF simulator

17 - Jordan Addison WR USC

32 - Cam Smith CB SC

49 - Jack Campbell LB Iowa

80 - Gervon Dexter Sr DL UF

120 - Jarrett Patterson OG Notre Dame

195 - Wanya Morris OT Oklahoma

236 - Dorian Thompson-Robinson QB UCLA 

does PFF always have Witherspoon as the fiCB off the board?

that pick for claypool sure looks good about now.  can you do a draft simulator by trading down a few spots and getting another pick?

Too bad we lost Shazier, I doubt a ILB  like that will be around for a long time .  He made the right decision to retire though, lucky to be walking and having a normal life. Talk about speed at  ILB 

[warfelg]

Purdy over Olave is a joke. 

[AFF]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Purdy over Olave is a joke. 

Olave is going to be a top 5 WR within the next 3 years…dude is an animal.

[3rivers]

33 minutes ago, AFF said:

Olave is going to be a top 5 WR within the next 3 years…dude is an animal.

who will be his QB though?

[warfelg]

2 thoughts that are quite interconnected here:

Im going all out to sign Tremaine Edmunds and bringing back Terrell as part of that. 
 

Outside of Trenton Simpson and Drew Sanders, not one off ball linebacker is worthy of our top 50 picks. 
 

Myles Jack - if back he should not get extended. He was good but not that good. And his knee isn’t good enough to committing keeping him around past 2023. 
 

Mark Robinson - I think he’s Vince Williams at best. That’s not bad but you need an athletic rangy LB with him. I’m not as up on him as many of you are. 
 

That means we need 2 LBers to round out your unit. I think Simpson will be gone by out pick and Sanders isn’t worth 17, but will be gone by 32. So you would need to get an Edmunds before the draft so you don’t force someone to your pick. I rather get someone like Edmunds who you have to overpay rather than try to go for a bargain like Kyzier White who puts you right back where you were last year. 

[jebrick]

14 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Outside of Trenton Simpson and Drew Sanders, not one off ball linebacker is worthy of our top 50 picks. 

^^THIS^^

signing Edmunds fills a big hole and can take that position off the draft board.

Edited January 26, 2023 by jebrick

[warfelg]

3 minutes ago, jebrick said:

^^THIS^^

signing Edmunds fills a big hole and can take that position off the draft board.

Or it creates the luxury of not having to force either one to play day 1 should they be there at 32. (Because I would sprint to the podium with that card in that case, especially Simpson.)

[bigben07MVP]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

2 thoughts that are quite interconnected here:

Im going all out to sign Tremaine Edmunds and bringing back Terrell as part of that. 
 

Outside of Trenton Simpson and Drew Sanders, not one off ball linebacker is worthy of our top 50 picks. 
 

Myles Jack - if back he should not get extended. He was good but not that good. And his knee isn’t good enough to committing keeping him around past 2023. 
 

Mark Robinson - I think he’s Vince Williams at best. That’s not bad but you need an athletic rangy LB with him. I’m not as up on him as many of you are. 
 

That means we need 2 LBers to round out your unit. I think Simpson will be gone by out pick and Sanders isn’t worth 17, but will be gone by 32. So you would need to get an Edmunds before the draft so you don’t force someone to your pick. I rather get someone like Edmunds who you have to overpay rather than try to go for a bargain like Kyzier White who puts you right back where you were last year. 

Agreed with all of the above. Robinson has a long way to go mentally imo. We saw Buddy Johnson who had the physical aspect but still looked lost after 2 years in the league. With that being said I think he has earned PT when we play teams like the Ravens.

I wonder if they would sign Edmunds without cutting Jack? That’s a lot of money to be tied into the ILB position, but would remove it from being a draft need.

Curious to your thoughts on signing David Long Jr

[warfelg]

23 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Agreed with all of the above. Robinson has a long way to go mentally imo. We saw Buddy Johnson who had the physical aspect but still looked lost after 2 years in the league. With that being said I think he has earned PT when we play teams like the Ravens.

I wonder if they would sign Edmunds without cutting Jack? That’s a lot of money to be tied into the ILB position, but would remove it from being a draft need.

Curious to your thoughts on signing David Long Jr

Agreed on the whole Robinson thing.

Yes, I can picture them keeping Jack with Edmunds on board.  Cutting Jack saves $8mil, but then you have the cap hold from not having him on the roster (about $1mil).  So if you want to do that to save money, what starter are you signing for less than $8mil?  If it’s to try to upgrade then yea cutting Jack can offset some of the new players cap, but to what degree?  Do you want to go into 2023 with 4/5 of your off ball LB group being brand new with a mostly established defense?  I would keep Jack, and I even lean to keep Spillane, because despite the physical limitations they were rarely out of position based on play calls.  Personally I think playing Robinson in the last two games was a mistake, because you lost the ability to stash him on the PS next year and bring in 1 FA, 1 draft pick, and retain Jack and Spillane.

The other thing I think is people think Jack is something that he isn’t.  He does OK in pass defense, but he’s a much better run defender.  He’s good at getting downhill and hitting the ball carrier.  Edmunds is a good run stopper, but he’s better at pass defense than Jack.  They’re similar in that they aren’t huge physically imposing guys but rather more athletic guys.

I’m iffy on Long.  Too much Bush in his game of stayed clean behind a good line and lacked the splash plays.

If you don’t go after Edmunds and pick a BUCK later in the draft, I would rather see them pick up Zach Cunningham (decent run stopper) and try to be in position to take the athletic guy like Simpson or Samuels later in the draft.  But still keep Jack or Spillane around.

Honestly, Spillane’s “I think I’m a starter but they don’t” comment tells me he’s gone.  I think some bad team with cap space (Chicago) is going to overpay him some.

[Dcash4]

I get the temptation, but I am out on paying top dollar this season at ILB. So much of maximizing that positions value revolves around the other pieces around them. I don't see paying someone top 3 ILB money at the positions a strong investment unless we first put resources into the DL. 

Saw a stat on twitter that I probably can't find again, but it was something to the tune of Cam Heyward having more pressures than the rest of our defensive line combined. We need investment there. Maybe we can do both, but personally I wouldn't prioritize ILB before DL. 

I am curious to Weidl's influence here. The Eagles do not put emphasis on that position. Their draft and FA strategies have been more about guys that fit upfront on defense than impact at LB. 

[3rivers]

regarding ILB, whats wrong with R.Evans?  i remember the talk of the steelers wanting to draft him, now he is UFA but never a mention. 

The trenches need to be addressed.   Spending max on ILB Edmunds will make sure the trenches never get addressed. Drafting for the trenches is a risk, much like drafting for defence with colbert as he proved over the last decade . 

The DL is weak, DT in particular . Ogunjobi was good, but will probably be gone. Heyward is near the end, but still  good and probably needs some snaps off now and then.  Leal might be ok, but time will tell. Absolutely no depth and while lacking depth , tomlin still rotates DT's and the defence is vulnerable then

OL - we have no depth and could improve starters.  Look at the remaining 4 teams OL's here in the playoffs, thats championship football and how to put together a team.  Even Cinci with 3 reserves on the OL,  trashed the bills and are on their way because of quality depth.  What if Moore or Chuks got hurt last year?

Khan needs to get UFA done and over with quick so they can plan for the draft.  Overpaying the Edmunds could cost the team when playing teams that are good in the tranches, as most legit teams will be. 

How about letting SS Edmunds walk,  Bring in V.Bell (which make  the main competition not as good at the same time)  and there is Bell and Minkah for the secondary + RD1 CB1 - and instead of top  price ILB,  we address the trenches.  Ideally, steal a player from a top tier team, helping that team be not as good in the process.

The nice part about UFA is you can address needs AND in the process the main competition will be  a bit less formidable as you get  UFA's directly from them, so that is win-win 

still hoping Khan and crew does well, glad colbert is gone.  With them already retaining canada (thats already one strike against them)  what's next could be the question. The team will be held back by canada more than anything.

I can't see them acquiring enough talent to offset the canada effect and defeating KC, Bengals , Eagles and SF. That just seems a bit far fetched to say the least

[3rivers]

1 minute ago, Dcash4 said:

I get the temptation, but I am out on paying top dollar this season at ILB. So much of maximizing that positions value revolves around the other pieces around them. I don't see paying someone top 3 ILB money at the positions a strong investment unless we first put resources into the DL. 

Saw a stat on twitter that I probably can't find again, but it was something to the tune of Cam Heyward having more pressures than the rest of our defensive line combined. We need investment there. Maybe we can do both, but personally I wouldn't prioritize ILB before DL. 

I am curious to Weidl's influence here. The Eagles do not put emphasis on that position. Their draft and FA strategies have been more about guys that fit upfront on defense than impact at LB. 

exactly.  

now imagine if Heyward was hurt or not near 100% what it would have been like? We saw what happened when TJ was out.  Eagles have it right for the trenches.   KC's OL is top notch as well AND their QB is getting paid. No excuses anymore, other than canada, but maybe they fire him midseason

[warfelg]

42 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I get the temptation, but I am out on paying top dollar this season at ILB. So much of maximizing that positions value revolves around the other pieces around them. I don't see paying someone top 3 ILB money at the positions a strong investment unless we first put resources into the DL. 

Saw a stat on twitter that I probably can't find again, but it was something to the tune of Cam Heyward having more pressures than the rest of our defensive line combined. We need investment there. Maybe we can do both, but personally I wouldn't prioritize ILB before DL. 

I am curious to Weidl's influence here. The Eagles do not put emphasis on that position. Their draft and FA strategies have been more about guys that fit upfront on defense than impact at LB. 

The flip side is that if you make the big investment in ILB in FA, pushing that need down the board, make a small scale investment into DL, which keeps it early on the board still, then that strong resources into DL can come from the draft.

This isn’t so much about what you are saying, but too much of all of this is being looked at independently.  They absolutely effect each other here.  If we make a big FA investment in ILB, I see it being smaller in the draft, and I see the DL investment being big in the draft and smaller in FA; and vice versa.

To me there’s no FA DL out there that can have the impact as a big investment via FA that Edmunds can at ILB.  And almost matching well, DL is kinda deep (I see little difference from after Carter to 3rd round) in the draft, so you can wait and let someone come to you.  If you make the big investment via FA into DL, and we do little for ILB, we need to move into position for Simpson and/or Sanders because then it’s a wait for the 4th round type quality.

[jebrick]

The Draft is weak in ILB/off-ball LBs this year.  Do you over draft?

now IDL is not a great one either but it is deeper than ILB

[Dcash4]

13 minutes ago, warfelg said:

then that strong resources into DL can come from the draft.

Big part of this for me is that I think we need to do both at DL (FA and draft). I don't think we can make a small investment and think the draft completes it. Cam is getting older, Leal is likely a tweener, Loudermilk isn't that guy, Adams is okay depth, and then everyone else is a FA. I am not comfortable with any of those guys even playing a key rotational piece right now. Cam is the only one I feel comfortable with as a starter at a position that will need 2/3 bodies at a time. 

If 25 year old Da'Ron Payne doesn't get tagged, he is my #1. Hargrave is right up there. 

It's going to be a Baskin Robbins flavor choice, but ILB does not move the needle for me. We can make up for weakness there, but we can't get by with weakness on the DL and any weakness there exacerbates other issues. Edmunds is a nice player, but not worth $15M if he gets up that high.

Paying for a top ILB with a meh/okay DL is like owning a Ferrari but living on a street with 1,000 potholes. Great to have, but you can't experience it at its height without a paved road. So, IMO, we should pave the road first. I'd personally build the interior and if I got past the draft/into the season and still felt like we needed impact at ILB, I'd call up the Colts and inquire about Shaq or the Bucs and buy low on Devin White.