BetterCallSaul Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 hours ago, goldfishwars said: He's been going top 15 in some mocks. What are 'all of the tools to become a great player' outside of his play strength? If a young, inexperienced guy shows twitch, burst and flex - then I get the bet on future growth. If we're talking an early day two guy, I can definitely see that. Yeah top 15 would be crazy to me. I don't think he's better than Felix Anudike-Uzomah. That's my dude for the late 1st/early 2nd. Van Ness is going to be a great gap defender in the run game and offer some pass rush as a bull rusher. He's not flashy, but he would be a nice addition next to someone like Myles Garrett, who is all speed rush all the time. If you're looking for a C-gap run defender who can shut off the front side of a run game, Van Ness becomes very valuable. With the prevalence of outside zone stretch, this is a valuable piece to have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 8 hours ago, goldfishwars said: Yeah I know what he is on paper, but what are people excited about on tape? I’ve seen people describe him as explosive, but he’s clearly not that. Every rep is a bull rush from the outside and sometimes he’s able to overpower dudes. I get that he’s inexperienced, but I assumed that untapped upside would come from flashes of athleticism and twitch. He doesn’t have that, or the ability to bend and flatten - so where’s the growth potential coming from? What exactly is there not to like about him? The guy is physically built like a rock for one! If put in a 3/4 as a DE he could be extremely effective or he can simply hold the edge in a 4/3 as a strong DE or if he put on some pounds could be a strong DT in a 4/3 or be just used as one in pass rush situations. Sure he is not some super twitchy athlete but in terms of strong dudes who can hold their ground he is one of them. His lacking of playing time just shows that if he had more snaps he would probably be twice as productive. Only reason he is not considered a sure thing is because of the lack in tape on him, but he can play and should at worst be a 2nd rounder but could maybe sneak into the 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, Ozzy said: What exactly is there not to like about him? The guy is physically built like a rock for one! If put in a 3/4 as a DE he could be extremely effective or he can simply hold the edge in a 4/3 as a strong DE or if he put on some pounds could be a strong DT in a 4/3 or be just used as one in pass rush situations. Sure he is not some super twitchy athlete but in terms of strong dudes who can hold their ground he is one of them. His lacking of playing time just shows that if he had more snaps he would probably be twice as productive. Only reason he is not considered a sure thing is because of the lack in tape on him, but he can play and should at worst be a 2nd rounder but could maybe sneak into the 1st. It’s not the only reason he’s not a sure thing, you are just not describing the skill set of a first round edge at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 9 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said: Habakkuk Baldonado is going to be a super value pick for whoever drafts him, he is a dude. I like him but why the hell was he not more productive this year? I expected a hell of a lot more out of him now he will not be drafted till like the 3rd or 4th round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 9 hours ago, goldfishwars said: Yeah I know what he is on paper, but what are people excited about on tape? I’ve seen people describe him as explosive, but he’s clearly not that. Every rep is a bull rush from the outside and sometimes he’s able to overpower dudes. I get that he’s inexperienced, but I assumed that untapped upside would come from flashes of athleticism and twitch. He doesn’t have that, or the ability to bend and flatten - so where’s the growth potential coming from? Having a bullrush like that and being able to convert speed to power off the LOS in the way LVN can is like having a 100 mph fastball. You don't need to come into the league with anything else because that is a trump tool. Anything he develops off of it is going to play up because you have to be worried about simply being put on skates and into your QB's lap. I would love LVN to the Pack at 15. He reminds me a ton of Rashan Gary, and Gary came into the league with an extremely similar skillset, speed to power freak, can play 3T/5/7/9, just a raw pass rush arsenal and limited experience. Plus as a 2020 HS grad he's going to be one of the youngest EDGE players in the class. Get him to a DL coach that knows what he's doing and he's going to be a menace. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Having a bullrush like that and being able to convert speed to power off the LOS in the way LVN can is like having a 100 mph fastball. You don't need to come into the league with anything else because that is a trump tool. Anything he develops off of it is going to play up because you have to be worried about simply being put on skates and into your QB's lap. I would love LVN to the Pack at 15. He reminds me a ton of Rashan Gary, and Gary came into the league with an extremely similar skillset, speed to power freak, can play 3T/5/7/9, just a raw pass rush arsenal and limited experience. Plus as a 2020 HS grad he's going to be one of the youngest EDGE players in the class. Get him to a DL coach that knows what he's doing and he's going to be a menace. Agreed totally, and the guy in those clips two were against Paris Johnson and the other was Skoronski, two no question 1st round picks and he dominated both on those individual plays. Crazy impressive. Agreed is lack in pass rush moves is not all that important but the guy can motor for a man his size and again he is built like a rock and athletically is super impressive. I wish Will Anderson Jr could bull rush like Van Ness can. The guy is a force and in these specific highlights he is super impressive! Would love him as a DT in a pass rush situation in a 4/3, talk about collapsing the pocket. I need to move him up a bit, I might have him a little low. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM316 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 More explosive than Karlaftis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Ozzy said: I like him but why the hell was he not more productive this year? I expected a hell of a lot more out of him now he will not be drafted till like the 3rd or 4th round. I mean he was a projected top 10 pick, maybe teams were hellbent on him not wrecking their offenses. He was a really imposing prospect the previous year. All I know is I see a lot of tools and athletic abilities when I watch him production or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, DM316 said: More explosive than Karlaftis He really isn’t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 7 hours ago, DM316 said: More explosive than Karlaftis Who Van Ness, not sure about that but Karlaftis did well this year but I feel he benefited greatly from being on that roster. Chris Jones obviously controls the middle and destroys everyone or has this year. Not to mention the play of Clark is always solid and Dana who has played well and Sanders, Wharton and Dunlap, then Gay and Bolton who can really run so there is not much attention on Karlaftis. Van Ness is a different type of player but no question is way better at the point of attack and holding the edge and getting a great push. It depends on what one is looking for, I could see Van Ness going to say the Patriots or the Bucs and being outstanding on both of those teams, or maybe Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 I haven't done a deep dive into Van Ness yet, but why were his snaps so limited if he's so good? And yeah, being able to push back Paris Johnson is great, but he didn't affect the play, so that's not really that big a deal. And lots of edges beat Skoronski. That guy is fool's gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Daniel said: I haven't done a deep dive into Van Ness yet, but why were his snaps so limited if he's so good? And yeah, being able to push back Paris Johnson is great, but he didn't affect the play, so that's not really that big a deal. And lots of edges beat Skoronski. That guy is fool's gold. Man, give me an edge that can threaten the outside if you want to take one early. Functionally strong NFL tackles will trap that dude all day long knowing he's not getting round him, especially if he's raw in the toolbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, Daniel said: I haven't done a deep dive into Van Ness yet, but why were his snaps so limited if he's so good? And yeah, being able to push back Paris Johnson is great, but he didn't affect the play, so that's not really that big a deal. And lots of edges beat Skoronski. That guy is fool's gold. First glance, and I'll try to do some more research later, but Van Ness is a high floor run stopper with some potential to be more. I'm not sure how much I know/love his ceiling, but I think he's got the ability to be a good run stopping DE and capable NFL starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 I could see Van Ness having a similar career as Sam Hubbard. Very good against the run and while he may never be a double digit sack guy, he will make an impact as a pass rusher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 8 minutes ago, Ragnarok said: I could see Van Ness having a similar career as Sam Hubbard. Very good against the run and while he may never be a double digit sack guy, he will make an impact as a pass rusher. I'll be interested to see how Van Ness tests. I knew Hubbard was going to have the career that he had, because you saw how athletic he was, not just at OSU, but he was a Safety in high school in Cincinnati Moeller, one of the top football schools in the nation (I hate them for the record). Van Ness is 6'5 and 275 Sam Hubbard is/was also 6'5 and 270 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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