Time to Fire LaFleur, Gute, and Murphy And Burn The House Down

[{Family Ghost}]

16 hours ago, LLcheesehead12 said:

I had always been puzzled as to why Ray Rhodes had been hired, though after checking his Wikipedia and seeing he had previously been our DC from 1992-93, I'm guessing Wolf figured he knew the guy better or something.

 

At this point for LaFleur, even though I think he should be gone because I think he's proven he won't ever win a SB as a HC, he won't be, or at least not until after another year, maybe longer if we decide to go ahead and transition to Love this next season.  But he will have to meet three obligations to start building up good will again:

1.  Fix his junky scheme and make it more like KC's

2.  Kick Joe Barry Outta here

3.  Turn Love into a star and retain Nixon as the return guy

I think Rhodes was fired because Wolf thought he was too close to the players and was more one of the boys than an authority figure.  I vaguely recall a story about Wolf walking thru the locker room and seeing Rhodes playing cards or dominoes with a group of players.  That supposedly helped prompt Wolf to can Rhodes.

[Brat&Beer]

45 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I think Rhodes was fired because Wolf thought he was too close to the players and was more one of the boys than an authority figure.  I vaguely recall a story about Wolf walking thru the locker room and seeing Rhodes playing cards or dominoes with a group of players.  That supposedly helped prompt Wolf to can Rhodes.

Favre actually went to Wolf with his concerns about what was going on in the locker room. Players showing up late to meetings, taking calls on cell phones during meetings etc. Wolf brought in Rhodes in part because he felt player discipline had slipped in 1998. Rhodes turned out to be exactly the opposite of what Wolf had in mind. 

[Sandy]

15 hours ago, LLcheesehead12 said:

No because we don't like underachieving GMs and HCs.  Matt LaFleur has blown it in every big playoff game he's coached in and that's unlikely to change.

Have you had your job for more than four years?

At what point did you stop getting better at it?

 

We have a young coach who has overcome immense challenges in his early career, restored Rodgers' MVP form, developed Love into a young passer most of us are actually excited about, took the ball of clay that was Watson and turned him into a OROY candidate with half a season of playing time, won 39 games in his first three years and in the biggest down season of his career still might sneak a flawed and injury-ridden roster into the playoffs.

And there's only reason to believe he's still learning how to do the job.

Don't be the Browns, who fired Bill Belichick in 1996 and have had only three winning seasons since.

 

[PackFan13]

I think MLF deserves a bit more time but Gutey has to go. His roster management for a title contender was flat out bad the last few years. Bring in some new blood. Not going all in 2020 would get most GMs canned. The only time I wish we had an owner is situations like this. 

If he hit on a single wr or te prior to Watson this team wins one more Superbowl. We are the Packers for hells sake. We are at the bottom of most people's wish lists for places to live in NFL cities. Green Bay is amazing on game day but holy **** there is not much to do other than drink and fish.

Moving picks to add talent at TE or WR was a must. Instead he stuck with his picks that are underwhelming for the most part. I had such high hopes for him after the first draft trade that landed is jaire and a pick the next year. Sadly he did his best Rob Pelinka and we're in the situation we are in.

 

[PackFan13]

14 minutes ago, Sandy said:

Have you had your job for more than four years?

At what point did you stop getting better at it?

 

We have a young coach who has overcome immense challenges in his early career, restored Rodgers' MVP form, developed Love into a young passer most of us are actually excited about, took the ball of clay that was Watson and turned him into a OROY candidate with half a season of playing time, won 39 games in his first three years and in the biggest down season of his career still might sneak a flawed and injury-ridden roster into the playoffs.

And there's only reason to believe he's still learning how to do the job.

Don't be the Browns, who fired Bill Belichick in 1996 and have had only three winning seasons since.

 

Let's calm down comparing him to Bill, holy hell. We are giving the coach far too much credit.

Watson was a ball of clay? Haha no, he's a freak of nature that would produce regardless of the coach. MLF didn't bring that out of him, it's who he is. Love has proven literally nothing. (I think he should still be our coach and his work with love hopefully leads to our next QB but I have serious doubts) 

[Isherwood]

2 hours ago, PackFan13 said:

I think MLF deserves a bit more time but Gutey has to go. His roster management for a title contender was flat out bad the last few years. Bring in some new blood. Not going all in 2020 would get most GMs canned. The only time I wish we had an owner is situations like this. 

If he hit on a single wr or te prior to Watson this team wins one more Superbowl. We are the Packers for hells sake. We are at the bottom of most people's wish lists for places to live in NFL cities. Green Bay is amazing on game day but holy **** there is not much to do other than drink and fish.

Moving picks to add talent at TE or WR was a must. Instead he stuck with his picks that are underwhelming for the most part. I had such high hopes for him after the first draft trade that landed is jaire and a pick the next year. Sadly he did his best Rob Pelinka and we're in the situation we are in.

 

I'm not absolving Gute and I'm also not condemning him. I am perfectly whelmed by him. But I do wonder if GB's philosophy is organizational vs. something Gutey is imprinting on it. The one year he had a lot of cash, he spent on rebuilding a defense. 

We'll never know, because GB is one of the tightest lipped orgs in sports, but I wonder whether a lack of "one more move" or whatever you want to call it comes down to GB top-to-bottom organizational policy rather than anything that can be laid at Gutey's feet. 

[svp]

Filippo Brunelleschi was a sought after sculptor who entered a contest and won. He won the job of building the largest duomo (dome) on a cathedral in Florence (Firenze) which hadn't been done previously. Started in 1296 and finished in 1475  with a 50 year pause. It took so long because of add ons and the part about "it-had-never been-done-before" aspect.  He built the dome from 1420 to 1436, innovating techniques and tools to his novel ideas. He built a smaller dome underneath the real one to test his ideas. This means the Popes drafted him and asked him to do what no one else had done; building the largest dome with brick successfully.  He had to figure it out first but only after he took the job.  Took the job > figured it out > built it. He went back and added space underneath for people to gather and speak with the philosophers on the tribuna in the excedra. Italians still name their sons "Filippo" in his honor. 

I don't think giving Amari Rodgers more or less time would have made a difference.  Offense and Defense needed and still needs to dominate for the wins. 

Daypost vs. Night Man

 

[pgwingman]

3 hours ago, PackFan13 said:

If he hit on a single wr or te prior to Watson this team wins one more Superbowl. 

Moving picks to add talent at TE or WR was a must. Instead he stuck with his picks that are underwhelming for the most part. I had such high hopes for him after the first draft trade that landed is jaire and a pick the next year. Sadly he did his best Rob Pelinka and we're in the situation we are in.

 

I totally agree on the TE part, but the problem is that if you look at previous drafts, there's very very few TEs taken after our third round selections that have had an impact, so in that respect Sternberger and Degura aren't really that big of busts. Foster Moreau and Dawson Knox look like the lone exceptions.

WR is a little different. I'd say Gute has hit on EQ and MVS, given their draft slot. J'mon Moore and Amari Rodgers were busts, and this years class looks like a home run.

I understand the idea of moving picks for TE or WR, but what sort of idea do you have in mind? Chase Claypool would have cost the Packers a first round pick for trading in season. Prior to this year, Davante really kept WR production up. If you look at the TEs in free agency, it's a scrap heap. I think Gute's done the best he can by keeping Lewis around to block, and signing Tonyan to a 1 year deal on the off chance his knee would have healed up and he returned to form. It's too bad for him, but he looks like he's done too.

[Sandy]

1 hour ago, PackFan13 said:

Let's calm down comparing him to Bill, holy hell. We are giving the coach far too much credit.

Watson was a ball of clay? Haha no, he's a freak of nature that would produce regardless of the coach. MLF didn't bring that out of him, it's who he is. Love has proven literally nothing. (I think he should still be our coach and his work with love hopefully leads to our next QB but I have serious doubts) 

Forest for the trees, man. My overarching argument is that coaches get better with experience just like players do.

And..Watson was an athlete, not a football player. Now he's both. The difference is important.

[LLcheesehead12]

10 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I think Rhodes was fired because Wolf thought he was too close to the players and was more one of the boys than an authority figure.  I vaguely recall a story about Wolf walking thru the locker room and seeing Rhodes playing cards or dominoes with a group of players.  That supposedly helped prompt Wolf to can Rhodes.

Lol no I said "Hired" not "Fired" lol.  We all know why he was fired, the results on the field spoke for themselves.

[LLcheesehead12]

7 hours ago, Sandy said:

Have you had your job for more than four years?

At what point did you stop getting better at it?

 

We have a young coach who has overcome immense challenges in his early career, restored Rodgers' MVP form, developed Love into a young passer most of us are actually excited about, took the ball of clay that was Watson and turned him into a OROY candidate with half a season of playing time, won 39 games in his first three years and in the biggest down season of his career still might sneak a flawed and injury-ridden roster into the playoffs.

And there's only reason to believe he's still learning how to do the job.

Don't be the Browns, who fired Bill Belichick in 1996 and have had only three winning seasons since.

 

 

Ugh wrong on so many counts!!!

 

1. Pretty sure Rodgers did that on his own, but then again this place has a bunch of people who know what goes on his head apparently

2. Ummm .... Bit premature there.  I hope Love is that guy, but let's see him start 17 games first before we start saying this.  Not to mention LaFleur and Gute seem to keep hoping Rodgers comes back and not get excited about this potential new QB, and that's really bad on their part.

3. A head coach should not need 4 years to learn how to do his job, just as a QB doesn't need 4-5 years to develop.

4. Biggest ugh constantly stated by people who obviously only started watching football after 1999, that Browns team that fired Bellichek relocated and is now the freaking Baltimore Ravens!!!!!  Today's Browns team was an expansion franchise.  Ugh people never get this right!!!  And I'm certain the Ravens have had more than just 3 winning seasons as well as a pair of superbowls since.

Edited December 24, 2022 by LLcheesehead12

[OneTwoSixFive]

1 hour ago, LLcheesehead12 said:

1. Pretty sure Rodgers did that on his own, but then again this place has a bunch of people who know what goes on his head apparently.

Or, they looked at his performance prior to La Fleur and what he did afterwards. Actual on the field performance rather than some WAG at his psyche.

2. Ummm .... Bit premature there.  I hope Love is that guy, but let's see him start 17 games first before we start saying this.  Not to mention LaFleur and Gute seem to keep hoping Rodgers comes back and not get excited about this potential new QB, and that's really bad on their part.

Wrong again. Now IS exactly the time to get excited. If you want to wait for 17 starts by him, you won't need to be excited, you'll KNOW what you have. Excitement (in this case) is hope, not realisation

3. A head coach should not need 4 years to learn how to do his job, just as a QB doesn't need 4-5 years to develop.

La Fleur didn't take four years to learn his job. Three 13 win seasons is proof of that. On the other hand, coaches should always be learning. If they aren't, they are not doing their job.

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by OneTwoSixFive

[AlexGreen#20]

20 hours ago, Brat&Beer said:

Favre actually went to Wolf with his concerns about what was going on in the locker room. Players showing up late to meetings, taking calls on cell phones during meetings etc. Wolf brought in Rhodes in part because he felt player discipline had slipped in 1998. Rhodes turned out to be exactly the opposite of what Wolf had in mind. 

Yeah, only Favre should be allowed to do that!

[incognito_man]

18 hours ago, svp said:

Filippo Brunelleschi was a sought after sculptor who entered a contest and won. He won the job of building the largest duomo (dome) on a cathedral in Florence (Firenze) which hadn't been done previously. Started in 1296 and finished in 1475  with a 50 year pause. It took so long because of add ons and the part about "it-had-never been-done-before" aspect.  He built the dome from 1420 to 1436, innovating techniques and tools to his novel ideas. He built a smaller dome underneath the real one to test his ideas. This means the Popes drafted him and asked him to do what no one else had done; building the largest dome with brick successfully.  He had to figure it out first but only after he took the job.  Took the job > figured it out > built it. He went back and added space underneath for people to gather and speak with the philosophers on the tribuna in the excedra. Italians still name their sons "Filippo" in his honor. 

I don't think giving Amari Rodgers more or less time would have made a difference.  Offense and Defense needed and still needs to dominate for the wins. 

Daypost vs. Night Man

 

I don't know how I've never heard of this man. I legitimately want to tour Italy and see his works now. What a cool life. 

 

Thanks for the link

[LLcheesehead12]

Prime example of LaFleur as a stupid coach with his awful red zone play calling there.  Awful swing pass, and he now leads all time Packer head coaches in worst red zone TD percentages.