2023 Free Agency

[Justwinning]

4 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

If we still have to pay Littleton why did we let him leave. I’m not a contract guy but that never made sense to me

Created enough space to make moves for other areas of the team. Definitely not ideal though.

[Darbsk]

On 8/11/2023 at 5:26 PM, riceman80 said:

On the subject, why have we not invested in the LB position like at all since we flopped on Rolando McClain. EVERY year for like 10 years now, I swear it's 2nd/3rd tier FAs and mid to late rounders. I don't get it and it's beyond frustrating 

What makes it worse is you can probably get away with it if the DLine is commanding and can protect them somewhat but we’ve had a below average to terrible DLine for ages.

I don’t value LBs that highly but I value DLine next to QB so I’d spend my resources there and skimp on LB.

[Darbsk]

15 hours ago, G said:

Before McClain it was 1994 Rob Fredrickson and I think a 2nd rounder too...Before that Aaron Wallace. I remember the TV people saying Al didn't like taking LB's high in the draft. Matt Millen?!? Usually we got our LB's off of other teams rosters. 

What about Napoleon Harris, he was a 1st rounder wasn’t he?

[Justwinning]

6 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

What about Napoleon Harris, he was a 1st rounder wasn’t he?

Yes he was. Last 3 years until being shipped to MIN in the Randy Moss deal.

[reddevil]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Don’t the niners run 4 man fronts you were referring to in your question?

you honestly think the niners dbs are more valuable than Warner…that’s beyond interesting 

I obviously don’t but everyone is entitled to their own opinion 

 

 

Just to tag into this. I think that on the whole the value of LBs has dropped much like RBs. The difference is that in the case of RBs, there are hundreds of them who are able to perform, within a system to produce what a team needs. So a supply and demand issue.

With the modern game, there is so much for a LB to do to be able to perform every aspect of the role at a truly impactful level - you can count on one hand the number of LBs that can genuinely cover and are not a liability in the run game (or vice versa). 

I think that most FOs have realised this fact and they have stopped spending high draft picks or overspending on a position where, apart from a very, very small group of elite players, there just aren’t that many LBs who can do it all imo. 

[Dessie]

52 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

What makes it worse is you can probably get away with it if the DLine is commanding and can protect them somewhat but we’ve had a below average to terrible DLine for ages.

I don’t value LBs that highly but I value DLine next to QB so I’d spend my resources there and skimp on LB.

This is my point, you can skimp on LBs, but you need to be very good on the DLine. LBs aren’t that important.

[Dessie]

2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Don’t the niners run 4 man fronts you were referring to in your question?

you honestly think the niners dbs are more valuable than Warner…that’s beyond interesting 

I obviously don’t but everyone is entitled to their own opinion 

 

 

What round did the 49ers pick up Warner? 

[NCOUGHMAN]

15 minutes ago, Dessie said:

What round did the 49ers pick up Warner? 

Do you ever answer a question?

you know what round he was picked 

you asked about 4-3, 4-2-5?

I presented the niners and Warner and bosa as their most valuable positions

and I agree

inside out 

1) dl

2) lbs

3) dbs

imo dl keeps lbs clean, lbs control the intermediate field keeping the cbs clean, cbs control the edges keeping the safety clean to worry about over the top and assisting all over the field 

 

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, reddevil said:

Just to tag into this. I think that on the whole the value of LBs has dropped much like RBs. The difference is that in the case of RBs, there are hundreds of them who are able to perform, within a system to produce what a team needs. So a supply and demand issue.

With the modern game, there is so much for a LB to do to be able to perform every aspect of the role at a truly impactful level - you can count on one hand the number of LBs that can genuinely cover and are not a liability in the run game (or vice versa). 

I think that most FOs have realised this fact and they have stopped spending high draft picks or overspending on a position where, apart from a very, very small group of elite players, there just aren’t that many LBs who can do it all imo. 

Imo it depends on your teams dedication to defense if you’re dedicated you reserve resources for important rare positions like lbs. Some teams even draft lbs first round.

I’d also say finding elite players at any position is difficult. Some say drafting cbs in the first is frowned upon or rbs but it still happens. Just depends on the team’s philosophy imo

3 first round lbs picked this last draft iirc

Edited August 12, 2023 by NCOUGHMAN

[NCOUGHMAN]

46 minutes ago, Dessie said:

This is my point, you can skimp on LBs, but you need to be very good on the DLine. LBs aren’t that important.

Look at the top 5 defenses last year lb cores hell even top 10 Lololol 

[BackinBlack]

I think the biggest thing about LBs, is every 2 seasons or so we change schemes. 
we will pick up a run lb and ask him to play the pass, and then be sad when he isnt great for us.

similar to when the eagles took Nnamdi from us and made him play zone. 

you need an identity before you can start picking and choosing proven lbs.
we havent had an identity on D for a long time. 

we will sign players who thrive in specific roles, and ask them to do a lot more or differnet things than what theyve done before. 

Joyner was a slot CB, called a safety, that we put primarly at safety and get mad when it doesnt work. 

let players play to their strengths. 
Abrams, was a mess no doubt, but putting him into coverage did no one any favors either. he is a down hill player (who struggles at that as well lol)

[Dessie]

10 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Do you ever answer a question?

you know what round he was picked 

you asked about 4-3, 4-2-5?

I presented the niners and Warner and bosa as their most valuable positions

and I agree

inside out 

1) dl

2) lbs

3) dbs

imo dl keeps lbs clean, lbs control the intermediate field keeping the cbs clean, cbs control the edges keeping the safety clean to worry about over the top and assisting all over the field 

 

Wow you would take a LB before a CB, I disagree about that. I’m taking the top CBs before any LB. 

In our scheme I don’t think the DL is there to keep the Lbs clean, we want to the front 4 to penetrate not control the line to allow LBs to make the play, it’s part of the reason why we don’t value the LB position as highly. It happens in other schemes for sure. 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Dessie

[Dessie]

7 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

I think the biggest thing about LBs, is every 2 seasons or so we change schemes. 
we will pick up a run lb and ask him to play the pass, and then be sad when he isnt great for us.

similar to when the eagles took Nnamdi from us and made him play zone. 

you need an identity before you can start picking and choosing proven lbs.
we havent had an identity on D for a long time. 

we will sign players who thrive in specific roles, and ask them to do a lot more or differnet things than what theyve done before. 

Joyner was a slot CB, called a safety, that we put primarly at safety and get mad when it doesnt work. 

let players play to their strengths. 
Abrams, was a mess no doubt, but putting him into coverage did no one any favors either. he is a down hill player (who struggles at that as well lol)

It was the other way round for Joyner. He was a safety that we played at slot CB. 

[G]

21 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

 

imo you need at least 1 dogg at all three levels dl, lb and dt. All the best defenses have that. We were at our best with beikerts and romo

Ravens were nasty with Lewis and Reed...Then I'm like DT Ngata, DE/LB Suggs, my oh my that D was stacked but I think Lewis and Reed were the ones that made that work because they saw the who;e field/game and communicated to let the others play fast. 

When Gruden came on board I wanted to draft S Derwin James bad. Felt he was a difference maker, leader, 'dog' and I felt Mack was great but more of a quiet leader type. I thought an 'enforcer' stalkerwas needed and that combined with Mack would push the rest to be better. Trading Mack affected team chemistry. Carr then had to lead on his own and we all saw how that went. 

Offensive coaches will always want their toys but Maxx needs another 'dog' on Defense behind him so he can scare who's in front of him and know there's someone behind him that's going to kill anything he wounds in front of him. We've got Maxx signed for the next 4 years and we could franchise him if DE's are getting QB money by that time.

Draft, develop and sign to a 2nd contract...This is the way....

[G]

17 hours ago, Darbsk said:

What about Napoleon Harris, he was a 1st rounder wasn’t he?

Yes I totally forgot about him. Probably because we traded him for Moss if I recall. Yep just looked it up and wow he's a politician now...