drfrey13 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 hour ago, dante9876 said: This again. Sheesh. Just go back and watch the first few games. Something changes week 3. We already had the discussion about what she said but something happened and it changed the team. Could be as simple as other teams getting some tape on Downing or more complex. We looked liked a top 5 team the first couple of weeks and like a bottom 12 team since. We have not looked right even when we win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 16 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: Just go back and watch the first few games. Something changes week 3. We already had the discussion about what she said but something happened and it changed the team. Could be as simple as other teams getting some tape on Downing or more complex. We looked liked a top 5 team the first couple of weeks and like a bottom 12 team since. We have not looked right even when we win. The first 4 weeks of the season notoriously misrepresent how the season will turn out. We could ask the same questions about teams like the Chiefs and Broncos. The only difference is those teams don't have an insane recurring rumor around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: The first 4 weeks of the season notoriously misrepresent how the season will turn out. We could ask the same questions about teams like the Chiefs and Broncos. The only difference is those teams don't have an insane recurring rumor around them. Chiefs 5 of 6 loses are by one score or less. I think teams have figured out how to beat them but they have not quit. Denver has looked similar to us and have had a big swing in turnovers similar to us. So I would agree with Denver but the only reason why there is not a rumor about locker room problems with Denver is because we know what happened. Their locker room imploded and even the GM got in the fight with the players. We have gone from +16 in TO to -10 which is huge but I see something is off when it comes to team chemistry. Winning will fix a lot but there is something that we do not know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 4 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Just go back and watch the first few games. Something changes week 3. We already had the discussion about what she said but something happened and it changed the team. Could be as simple as other teams getting some tape on Downing or more complex. We looked liked a top 5 team the first couple of weeks and like a bottom 12 team since. We have not looked right even when we win. Yeah I'll tell you what happened, they got their ***** handed to them on national television and it wrecked their confidence. Thats one of the things the '16 Raiders had, confidence and sometimes thats all you need. Thats what the Redskins had when they torched the Raiders. The Raiders got punched in the mouth and never recovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, Chali21 said: Yeah I'll tell you what happened, they got their ***** handed to them on national television and it wrecked their confidence. Thats one of the things the '16 Raiders had, confidence and sometimes thats all you need. Thats what the Redskins had when they torched the Raiders. The Raiders got punched in the mouth and never recovered. Agree. They believed their own hype and got a dose of reality. Their fragile psyche's couldn't recover. With each loss, the facade wore off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver&Black88 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 14 hours ago, OakRaiders3828 said: Jack is staying imo. Whether I whine about it or not, it's reality. I was honestly ok with giving TD another year as well until last week, now forget it. Keep Jack, Keep Pagano unless there is an upgrade available and hire an experienced, creative OC who has had success with QBs in the past and knows how to scheme and game plan. About where I'm at. Though, I think its a distinct possibility JDR gets canned with some bad showings these next few weeks. Hoping for that tbh. @big_palooka thanks for posting that John Middlekauff rant John Middlekauff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolni Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 I think the team and the players have a chance to say something about their coaches in the next 3 games. They can show up and play with passion or they can basically throw their coaches under the bus. To finish a season with lets say 4 blowout losses, would have to make Mark and Reggie think really hard... I read Middlekaufs HC candidates and while Shaw and Jay Gruden are not realistic and even BOB is not too realistic IMO the 2 young guys got me thinking. Matt Nagy and John DeFilippo are the two names he throw in there. Ideally DeFilippo could be had as an OC, but the Eagles blocked him from OC interviews last year and could do the same this year. Both of those guys are up and coming offensive minds...their biggest questionmark would be the defensive side of the ball right? I was thinking that we have Pagano under contract, so unless they have a better name in head we could pair them with Pagano, who showed life since takeover. The HC could focus on Carr and the offense, while Pagano as DC/*** HC could focus on the defensive side. I think that could work well theoretically...obviously we would need the new HC to be on board with it, since you don't want to be a dysfunctional franchise again. With that said I hope Mark Davis steps aside and let Reggie McKenzie make the call on JDR and on the new HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 5 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said: About where I'm at. Though, I think its a distinct possibility JDR gets canned with some bad showings these next few weeks. Hoping for that tbh. @big_palooka thanks for posting that John Middlekauff rant John Middlekauff Same here honestly. Sadly... it's going to have to come apart in the locker room or JDR will be selling Davis on new coordinators being the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 4 hours ago, Rolni said: I think the team and the players have a chance to say something about their coaches in the next 3 games. They can show up and play with passion or they can basically throw their coaches under the bus. To finish a season with lets say 4 blowout losses, would have to make Mark and Reggie think really hard... I read Middlekaufs HC candidates and while Shaw and Jay Gruden are not realistic and even BOB is not too realistic IMO the 2 young guys got me thinking. Matt Nagy and John DeFilippo are the two names he throw in there. Ideally DeFilippo could be had as an OC, but the Eagles blocked him from OC interviews last year and could do the same this year. Both of those guys are up and coming offensive minds...their biggest questionmark would be the defensive side of the ball right? I was thinking that we have Pagano under contract, so unless they have a better name in head we could pair them with Pagano, who showed life since takeover. The HC could focus on Carr and the offense, while Pagano as DC/*** HC could focus on the defensive side. I think that could work well theoretically...obviously we would need the new HC to be on board with it, since you don't want to be a dysfunctional franchise again. With that said I hope Mark Davis steps aside and let Reggie McKenzie make the call on JDR and on the new HC. Who where his two young guys? Once again that's a pretty underwhelming list outside of BoB Shaw and possibly Nagy. Gruden I think would totally be underwhelming as a hire because I think most fans would see it as getting the discount Gruden. Also with what his former OC has done in LA it makes me wonder why the Redskins haven't been more of a force in the NFC East. Hiring Flip to be the head guy would be a mistake in my opinion unless he came with a real veteran staff, I'm talking guys who have been HCs before to help him. I think it would be like Downing just on both sides of the ball. On Nagy, I'm skeptical, he's only been the OC for the last 2 years and has only called plays the last 2 games. Sure the Eagles under peterson look great but will Nagy produce the same? At the end of the day the coaching staff is what matters to me. Look at some of the top teams in the NFL, McVay brought in Philips, Pederson has Schwartz, Zimmer first had Turner and then put Shurmer in the role, Tomlin has Hayley heck Jason Garret who is basically the NFCs version of JDR has two guys in Linehan and Marinelli that make him look good. Marinelli especially considering he has almost no talent on that defense. What I'm really getting at is a HC needs to be able to bring a great staff or be a Wizard on offense or defense. None of this lets fire a guy because he sucks, it worked for the Broncos because they had Peyton Manning and Wade Philips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggabonez Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 On 12/10/2017 at 2:38 PM, Chali21 said: The thing about Carr is he didn’t like Musgrave because Musgrave didn’t let him have as much control and wasn’t as approachable. Who cares? Musgrave got him paid. I say bring in the best guy possible and screw what Carr says. He says he’s about winning then show some humility and change what you do! Based on everything we consistently seen about Carr's disposition and cliche's what factual evidence do we have that Carr didn't "like" Musgrave or that he wants more control of the offense. Yet we have determined that behind the scenes Carr is different than his persona. Carr is not Manning. What is MORE likely is that JDR ran it by Carr and Carr was on board with WHATEVER JDR wanted to do because he loves to play good soldier. Conversely, JDR has fired Musgrave before after a short stint. It is more likely there was a riff between Musgrave and JDR. It's just a hunch but I believe that riff was over the NHHU aspect of the offense, which JDR claims is the same except in that regard. NHHU stresses the defense and with such a prolific offense I do not believe that it is a stretch to that a DEFENSIVE HC was consumed by fears that he may be overtaken by Musgrave because his offense overexposed him. JDR thought by promoting Downing he could maintain the offense absent the NHHU. Which seems more likely . . . .turning on the franchise QB who repeatedly falls in line based on assumptions or that there was beef/trust issues between the OC and HC that fired him before? IDK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Baggabonez said: Based on everything we consistently seen about Carr's disposition and cliche's what factual evidence do we have that Carr didn't "like" Musgrave or that he wants more control of the offense. Yet we have determined that behind the scenes Carr is different than his persona. Carr is not Manning. What is MORE likely is that JDR ran it by Carr and Carr was on board with WHATEVER JDR wanted to do because he loves to play good soldier. Conversely, JDR has fired Musgrave before after a short stint. It is more likely there was a riff between Musgrave and JDR. It's just a hunch but I believe that riff was over the NHHU aspect of the offense, which JDR claims is the same except in that regard. NHHU stresses the defense and with such a prolific offense I do not believe that it is a stretch to that a DEFENSIVE HC was consumed by fears that he may be overtaken by Musgrave because his offense overexposed him. JDR thought by promoting Downing he could maintain the offense absent the NHHU. Which seems more likely . . . .turning on the franchise QB who repeatedly falls in line based on assumptions or that there was beef/trust issues between the OC and HC that fired him before? IDK Jerry McDonald pointed it out. You’re right Derek plays the good soldier but David Carr implied on the nfl network that Musgrave was kinda distant whereas Downing is down for anything. You could be right about JDR not liking the NHHU which is why we haven’t seen much of it this season. I dont think that Carr complained or anything but if he liked Musgrave he would have fought to keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaiderX Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Sounds to me Mark Davis is putting a lot on the outcome of the Cowboys game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 8 hours ago, RaiderX said: Sounds to me Mark Davis is putting a lot on the outcome of the Cowboys game. Based on what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Based on what exactly? His comments to the media. Lool it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 9 hours ago, RaiderX said: Sounds to me Mark Davis is putting a lot on the outcome of the Cowboys game. I would too. If the Raiders don’t show up for this game then cancel Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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