AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 12 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said: Being on a NY team helps, and so did his ability to shine big in big moments (like his game ending pass breakup to beat BUF). I didn't watch Woolen so I can't compare them, but I can say that Sauce really made a spectacle of his pass breakups. Like, it would be a deep pass, sometimes in the endzone or near it, and the receiver would a step ahead of Sauce and have the ball in their hands - 100% going to catch this pass - and Sauce would somehow instantly make up the ground and rip it out of their hands. He's been super fun to watch. Woolen had a play just like the one you're describing against KC. Came out of nowhere to break up a deep shot in the end zone. I don't think Mahomes threw his way again that day. https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2022/12/24/tariq-woolen-is-faster-than-everybody-else-and-the-chiefs-just-found-that-out/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: How the hell are their stats so obviously different? And why would anyone trust PFF or PFR? Also can you do the same breakdown for Woolen's? Different places that chart stats like that can honestly have really minor differences in how they allocate receiving stats allowed, and actually have it add up to quite a bit over the season. I don't know how PFF's methodology has evolved over the years, but back when I had more free time and less of a life, I used to track catches/yards/TDs allowed for the Chiefs, back in like the Brandon Flowers days. And a comparison from my numbers to PFF showed a couple trends I didn't like. They defaulted heavily to crediting/punishing the closest player to the receiver at the point of catch. My absolute least favorite thing with this was it credited screens as catches allowed, which just seemed like non-sense to me. But it also tended to under punish safeties when teams were in like, cover 2 man, and the CB clearly played with technique expecting help over the top, and if the S was too late they'd still credit the CB despite it obviously being a safety issue. Some of this may have changed over the years, but it all came from this idea of trying not to assume the coverage, and just going off of what they know for sure, which is where players are, not where they should have been. You don't know that that safety should've been helping on that side, but you do know that the CB is trying desperately to catch up to the WR that ran by. I don't know at all how PFR charts, personally. But a difference like that could be like 10 plays, over the course of a season, which seems small, but would be 10% - 20% of that players targets for the entire year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: Different places that chart stats like that can honestly have really minor differences in how they allocate receiving stats allowed, and actually have it add up to quite a bit over the season. I don't know how PFF's methodology has evolved over the years, but back when I had more free time and less of a life, I used to track catches/yards/TDs allowed for the Chiefs, back in like the Brandon Flowers days. And a comparison from my numbers to PFF showed a couple trends I didn't like. They defaulted heavily to crediting/punishing the closest player to the receiver at the point of catch. My absolute least favorite thing with this was it credited screens as catches allowed, which just seemed like non-sense to me. But it also tended to under punish safeties when teams were in like, cover 2 man, and the CB clearly played with technique expecting help over the top, and if the S was too late they'd still credit the CB despite it obviously being a safety issue. Some of this may have changed over the years, but it all came from this idea of trying not to assume the coverage, and just going off of what they know for sure, which is where players are, not where they should have been. I don't know at all how PFR charts, personally. But a difference like that could be like 10 plays, over the course of a season, which seems small, but would be 10% - 20% of that players targets for the entire year. I remember you charting that stuff, it was some of my favorite content to read here back in the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted January 14, 2023 Author Share Posted January 14, 2023 3 hours ago, Forge said: It's because they aren't 100% sure on coverages and responsibilities. This has been a problem for quite some time with PFF and I assume that PFR is the same. The difference between pressure numbers from PFF and everywhere else is always so stark. I once contacted PFF and the company that does official advanced stat keeping for the NFL and asked them to define 'pressures'. PFF never got back to me, but the other place did. Good explanation too. Forget exactly who it was. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daimonas Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Kinda thought TJ Edwards might sneak into the second team. He's had a phenomenal season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 8 hours ago, MKnight82 said: Has that ever happened before? That's insane to me. Its usually a position that's difficult to transition to the pros. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Matt Gay got robbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 No Maxx Crosby is wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 13 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said: No Maxx Crosby is wild. I mean, he's great, but the other four are more deserving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 On 1/13/2023 at 11:32 AM, Forge said: It's almost unfair because they play different positions, tbh. Lawrence plays as a true 0/1 tech. I don't think people realize how good he was this year and how absurd he was given what he plays. Dude should not be 350 putting up 7.5 sacks and 30 qb hits. Agree, Lawrence was insane this past year and totally destroyed the Vikings for example both times they played. PS I just realized Chris Jones had 15.5 sacks, wasn't he transitioning to potentially playing DE this year or was that last year? Either way if he legit got that many sacks for that DT spot that is nuts so hard to argue that. And Quinnen Williams was awesome and crazy productive as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 On 1/13/2023 at 12:21 PM, AFlaccoSeagulls said: What's crazy is that he actually wasn't even better than Tariq Woolen this year and Woolen didn't even make All-Pro at all lol Dude led the league in INT's and had the lowest passer rating when targeted by far for ALL CB's. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/defense_advanced.htm Which isn't to say Sauce wasn't great this year - he was - but so was Woolen. Too bad the rest of the Seahawks defense was utter trash. I would say Sauce was better than Woolen, granted Woolen did have a great year but he also plays in a system that helps and supports him. More than one tall corner has been greatly successful for Pete Carroll and that D. I did have Woolen a 2nd rounder after that great combine performance and athletic numbers, no clue how he dropped as far as he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 4 hours ago, DawgX said: I mean, he's great, but the other four are more deserving. Yeah, I think it gets a little lost in the process that guys vote for first team. They don’t vote for 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th place (depending on position). Similar to MVP voting. If someone’s not thinking “this guy is the best in the league” then they don’t get a vote (again, some positions get more players selected obviously). You could be the 3rd best edge guy by far, but if #1 and #2 and firm - you won’t get votes. And I don’t think anybody reasonably believes Crosby was the best or second best edge guy this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 18 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said: No Maxx Crosby is wild. Maxx was only 4 total points behind Reddick for the 2nd spot on the 2nd team (33 to 29). They are very equal players. I have to imagine the sack numbers and being on a winning team is what gave Reddick the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingseanjohn Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Ozzy said: PS I just realized Chris Jones had 15.5 sacks, wasn't he transitioning to potentially playing DE this year or was that last year? Either way if he legit got that many sacks for that DT spot that is nuts so hard to argue that. And Quinnen Williams was awesome and crazy prod He’s still a DT. He does move outside on occasion though. But his best work is inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 On 1/13/2023 at 12:11 PM, The BILLievers said: Matt Milano finally getting some respect! love to see it. Our best defender this year by far. He's obviously a very good player, but I don't think Milano is deserving of 1st team All-Pro. He's the weakest selection IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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