CWood21 Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Pool said: Pack fans keep forgetting this and acting like their trading MVP Rodgers..... Neither you nor Rockice's comments are accurate. But do continue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Neither you nor Rockice's comments are accurate. But do continue... I mean, I read your teams post game comments. Not seeing a lot of hype for old Rodgers there.....I mean, isn't about half of your teams posters here been begging for them to dump Rodgers for a few years now? Not exactly a ringing endorsement of his current skills.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Neither you nor Rockice's comments are accurate. But do continue... So let's here. Anything in these stats stand out to you? Anything notably different between last season and the two prior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Pool said: So let's here. Anything in these stats stand out to you? Anything notably different between last season and the two prior? I mean, if you want to ignore context sure. I mean, if you want to ignore the fact that they traded Rodgers' favorite WR ever and replaced him with a pair of rookie WRs who finished 2nd (Romeo Doubs) and 3rd (Christian Watson) in snaps among WRs behind Allen Lazard. If you want to ignore the fact that a top 5 LT pretty much missed a chunk of the first half of the season plus a handful of games at the end with an appendectomy. If you want to ignore the fact that Aaron Rodgers was dealing with a broken thumb on his throwing hand. At some point, you have to use some common sense here. You don't go from MVP to being washed up after a season without some sort of significant event. This isn't Peyton Manning after his neck surgery. This isn't Drew Brees after the shoulder injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I mean, if you want to ignore context sure. I mean, if you want to ignore the fact that they traded Rodgers' favorite WR ever and replaced him with a pair of rookie WRs who finished 2nd (Romeo Doubs) and 3rd (Christian Watson) in snaps among WRs behind Allen Lazard. If you want to ignore the fact that a top 5 LT pretty much missed a chunk of the first half of the season plus a handful of games at the end with an appendectomy. If you want to ignore the fact that Aaron Rodgers was dealing with a broken thumb on his throwing hand. At some point, you have to use some common sense here. You don't go from MVP to being washed up after a season without some sort of significant event. This isn't Peyton Manning after his neck surgery. This isn't Drew Brees after the shoulder injury. All I see are excuses. I've seen him do a lot more with less. As have you. Also, didn't Jordan Love come in for an injured Rodgers and play pretty well under those same circumstances? Didn't he move the offense right up the field for a TD or two iirc? Edited March 17, 2023 by Pool 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Just now, Pool said: All I see are excuses. I've seen him do a lot more with less. As have you. You see excuses because that's what you CHOOSE to see. Do you think a player can suddenly fall off the cliff? Yes or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Just now, CWood21 said: You see excuses because that's what you CHOOSE to see. Do you think a player can suddenly fall off the cliff? Yes or no. Is this a serious question? Players playing ability takes a dive almost overnight ALL.THE.TIME. In every sport. You are living in fantasy land if you think its a guarantee that Rodgers at 39 is going to play at an MPV level. He could just as easily be this years Matt Ryan Colts experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Just now, Pool said: Is this a serious question? Players playing ability takes a dive almost overnight ALL.THE.TIME. In every sport. You are living in fantasy land if you think its a guarantee that Rodgers at 39 is going to play at an MPV level. He could just as easily be this years Matt Ryan Colts experiment. Not without some underlying issue. Peyton Manning did suddenly just forget how to throw a football. He had the neck surgery that pretty much rendered him useless. Drew Brees had the shoulder injury that pretty tapped out his arm strength. What injury caused that for Rodgers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) This whole thing is just such a charade for me. Poll a group of fans with the question: "Would you trade your [x] pick for a recent MVP QB to pair with your championship caliber defense for one season?" and tell me what that looks like. I bet it'd be a fun debate here. I think obviously it's not worth the #1 overall pick because there's likely a franchise QB prospect you like available there. But at one point does the idea of 5 years with a rookie look less appealing than one year with an MVP (in your mind) QB? Take all the names and teams out. If your team is legit a QB away (think like SF for sure) - how much is a single season of an aging recent MVP QB worth? I bet it ends up around a top 5-10 pick. But maybe you don't belief that much in the QB and your SB all-in isn't quite all-in so you're not nearly as confident about the possible payoff so you don't want to give up as much, either. Wonder how much they really believe in Aaron. *I think maybe what we're seeing in the divide on compensation is there or not the poster thinks Rodgers is worth it. I have no disagreement with people who think he's not worth a first. I don't think I would. But the Jets wouldn't be trading for him unless they thought he could win a SB there. And that's worth at least a first IF you believe in him. Edited March 17, 2023 by incognito_man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Not without some underlying issue. Peyton Manning did suddenly just forget how to throw a football. He had the neck surgery that pretty much rendered him useless. Drew Brees had the shoulder injury that pretty tapped out his arm strength. What injury caused that for Rodgers? Dude it happens alllll the time with no underlying issues. Players get old and their bodies just can't do it anymore. I don't even know what else to say to you here. I saw it with Urlacher with no injury reason. He just got old and his body physically could not perform at the level it used to and is needed to be successful in the NFL. Edited March 17, 2023 by Pool 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, incognito_man said: This whole thing is just such a charade for me. Poll a group of fans with the question: "Would you trade your [x] pick for a recent MVP QB to pair with your championship caliber defense for one season?" and tell me what that looks like. I bet it'd be a fun debate here. I think obviously it's not worth the #1 overall pick because there's likely a franchise QB prospect you like available there. But at one point does the idea of 5 years with a rookie look less appealing than one year with an MVP (in your mind) QB? Take all the names and teams out. If your team is legit a QB away (think like SF for sure) - how much is a single season of an aging recent MVP QB worth? I bet it ends up around a top 5-10 pick. But maybe you don't belief that much in the QB and your SB all-in isn't quite all-in so you're not nearly as confident about the possible payoff so you don't want to give up as much, either. Wonder how much they really believe in Aaron. If its Rodgers from 2 years ago or MVP Rodgers Im trading pick 13 without thinking twice. But that's not what the Jets are getting here. Their getting a Rodgers who choked in his last playoff game and played significantly worse last year than he has in years past and imo they are getting a Rodgers who isn't good enough to get them past the likes of the Bills, Bengals, or Chiefs in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Pool said: Dude it happens alllll the time with no underlying issues. Players get old and their bodies just can't do it anymore. I don't even know what else to say to you here. I saw it with Urlacher with no injury reason. He just got old and his body physically could not perform at the level it used to and is needed to be successful in the NFL. Name me a SINGLE player in the last 20 years that was coming off an MVP season that completely fell apart the season after WITHOUT a significant underlying reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Just now, CWood21 said: Name me a SINGLE player in the last 20 years that was coming off an MVP season that completely fell apart the season after WITHOUT a significant underlying reasoning. That has nothing to do with our discussion. Let's go this route though. Did Rodgers look like an MVP last year? Did he look like the Rodgers of old? No excuses, no strawmans. Just yes or no answers please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Pool said: That has nothing to do with our discussion. Let's go this route though. Did Rodgers look like an MVP last year? Did he look like the Rodgers of old? No excuses, no strawmans. Just yes or no answers please. Choosing to ignore context doesn't help the discussion. There's no debate that Rodgers didn't play at his MVP-level. That's not the discussion. The discussion was why was there a drop off. You think players magically fall off the face of the earth in terms of production. No proof. No supporting facts. No nothing. I present to you a slew of reasons for Rodgers' struggles, and you accuse me of making "excuses" and using "strawmans". You've already made your opinion, and you won't acknowledge anything beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: Choosing to ignore context doesn't help the discussion. There's no debate that Rodgers didn't play at his MVP-level. That's not the discussion. The discussion was why was there a drop off. You think players magically fall off the face of the earth in terms of production. No proof. No supporting facts. No nothing. I present to you a slew of reasons for Rodgers' struggles, and you accuse me of making "excuses" and using "strawmans". You've already made your opinion, and you won't acknowledge anything beyond that. Uh what? I told you exactly why players drop off. I'll say it again because you obviously missed it the first time. They get old and their bodies physically cannot perform at the same level they used to and is required to compete in the NFL. They can't run as fast, jump as high, bench as much etc. It is a fact of life and part of getting older. It is not just "because of injury" as you seem to believe. And I knew you wouldn't answer my question because you know I am right. This isn't MVP Rodgers. You talk about context. What context? Your context is excuses and I am sorry I am not willing to accept that. Rodgers was not the same Rodgers last year. That's a fact that you seem unwilling to admit and it was plain as day to everyone watching him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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