What does Sean do now?

[Broncofan]

1 minute ago, champ11 said:

For sure. And goes without saying Payton could be a disaster in Denver based on our track record lol 

As a HC I’m not worried there.  If Wilson isn’t fixable I’d be really optimistic on Payton in qb development.   He actually had Jameis Winston be ok in avoiding TO in 2021.   He did get too attached to Taysom Hill as a secret weapon but he also only deployed him that way when push came to shove.   I would prefer if Hill didn’t make it on to our team though those 7-8 plays they use him on, only on short yardage does it make sense to do lol.

It’s the pick cost / Payton’s willingness to stay post-Wilson that worries me.   That’s a truly legit concern.   Payton as a HC doesn’t.  

[Broncofan]

With some coaching movement and with Fangio now apparently confirmed in MIA, I'll modify my coaching staff post here...

 

Updated for a couple more options:

OC - Joe Lombardi.   I hate that he's so short-area on 1st/2nd down when he throws, it totally neutered a great QB in Justin Herbert.  It may not matter as much for the current version, but it is a departure from peak Russell Wilson.    I do like the run game creativity and willingness to feature the X (Jeudy) and use RB's / TE's with mismatches.     One MAJOR warning - he's a total disaster without Payton.    We should never think he's a good OC on his own.   With Payton, it probably works.   But he led a Matthew Stafford / Megatron / Golden Tate to a 717 throw, 19th-ranked pass O in 2014(what a combo) and then the Chargers in 2021 & 2022 to one of the lowest ADOT O's with terrible production and huge pass/run game imbalance on his own - after Shane Steichen energized the Chargers O with Herbert's breakout rookie year, much higher production across the board.   

With Payton, this works - because Lombardi's not making the big calls.  As long as Payton's around, I'll say this - I much prefer Payton-anyone 100x more than the Darrell Bevell combos or even Brian Schottenheimer ideas with a Dan Quinn combo. 

 OL - Dan Roushar.   While I wanted Munchak, knowing Roushar is available as @BroncoBruin pointed out, it's the more likely choice.  I can get behind it.   Roushar also did a fantastic job in helping with the emergence of Juwan Johnson (those in the Bets thread know he made me & others a TON of $ this year lol).    Hopefully he'd help with getting the most out of Greg Dulcich, and salvage Albert O.   EDIT FROM OP: I actually would wonder if bringing Munchak as a consultant and have both Munchak & Roushar on the roster would work, too.   But I'm good if it's only Roushar. 

WR coach - Kodi Burns?.   He's still on NO, so I think this could get blocked, unless there was some sort of promotion.   He's only been the coach for 1 year, but the emergence of Rashid Shaheed as their #2 as a UDFA and Chris Olave's rookie year speaks highly to him.  Zach Azzari did a decent job, but I suspect Payton might be interested here (unless they literally have no prior connection).

DC - Ejiro Evero / NEW:  Kris Richard (assistant DC).   Praying that Evero stays.   Nothing against Fangio, but this is a home run retain, keeps the attacking 3-4 we loved, helps him get more out of.   EDIT FROM OP:   But we also need to pick a successor - and I don't think there's a coincidence that Richard left NO Feb. 1.     Now, NO uses a 4-3, and we are in NO WAY ready to make the switch.    So keeping Evero as main DC, and then having Richard as assistant - it gives Payton a guy he's familiar with, but Richard learns the 3-4 system under Evero, and has his 4-3 experience too.    I'm not nearly as high on Richard as DC alone, because he would almost certainly switch to a 4-3, and I think Nielson (the other NO co-DC in 2022) and Dennis Allen ran the D far more than Richard, so I'd want Richard to learn under someone. 

Secondary - Christian Parker.   Along with Evero, the no-brainer retain on the D side.  I suppose Aaron Glenn might get the nod, but IMO Parker did an even better job.  I hope he stays.  EDIT FROM OP:  I really hope Richard doesn't get hired as secondary coach and then Parker's let go.  

Special Teams - ???.   I would love if Rosburg stayed, but I doubt it happens, if Payton and he have no connection.   Wish him well, he really salvaged a disaster year for us.  His 2-game stint probably caught all the HC candidates' attention and made us viable again.   Mad respect.    Either way, it would be great if Payton could bring his top 10 OL and top 10 ST production NO enjoyed on an almost annual basis. 

_______________________

The other X-factor - IND is apparently going to do a THIRD set of interviews for HC - so if Evero gets the call there, then it's a holding pattern.  But if ARI (who apparently are zeroing in on Flores) and IND pass on Evero as HC - IMO the above would be a great start.

[jolly red giant]

10 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

And, I think that Payton is a better play caller. When he was here last, Kubiak wouldn't stick with things that worked. For example, against the Pats in 2016, they ran a no-huddle and got a FG, and he never did that again. Maybe Gary did that because he knew he was a lame-duck coach, but I don't know if he was ever as good as Payton at that. 

Kubiak did a remarkable job during the SB year - Manning was dead on his feet and Kubiak's ability to hold everything together and keep the ball rolling up to and winning the SB should not be underestimated. In my view it was one of the best single year efforts from a HC in the history of the NFL.

[jolly red giant]

I do have an element of confidence based on the fact that Payton is a good HC - and Paton is a good GM (I'll give him a pass on Hackett - every GM is allowed f*ck-up one coaching hire - and any GM in the NFL needing a QB would have made the Wilson trade). Paton has done a good job in terms of roster building and he should be encouraged to continue in the same vein. We have a good D and some pieces on offence - fix the OL and get Wilson to boderline top 10 and this team can do damage with Payton calling the plays.

I do think they might try and move Sutton for some draft capital in the next month or so.

[Broncofan]

1 minute ago, jolly red giant said:

Kubiak did a remarkable job during the SB year - Manning was dead on his feet and Kubiak's ability to hold everything together and keep the ball rolling up to and winning the SB should not be underestimated. In my view it was one of the best single year efforts from a HC in the history of the NFL.

I'm not sure it was the best, but Kubiak's coaching certainly was the diff between winning the SB and being a "what might have been year".  You don't win as many 1-score games as we did without the D we did, but also the coaching decisions.      It's not far enough away that ppl shouldn't recall he had the stones to pull PFM when he had nothing left in the gas tank, and Oz had the game of his life against NE...and then had the stones to pull Oz and put PFM for the Chargers game, and squeeze enough out of his QB corpse to get us that game, and PIT/NE, until we crushed CAR. 

From a pure X-and-O and scheme perspective, though, it's not even close.    Payton is a top 5 guy that way.  And as others have mentioned, he values & cultivates great OL play, and trench / D play overall (he's not directly involved, but clearly lets the GM focus on those areas).    Remember, under his tenure, the Saints have been the only team to trade up for EDGE/OL help, rather than a QB.     One can argue the merits, but you can't dismiss how much he values it, and the resource allocation follows.    Payton's only real weakness as a play-caller is his love of gadget plays (Taysom Hill, come on down).   He can't resist showing he's the smartest guy in the room at times (Hill's use in the GB playoff game, LAR playoff game and that classic SF reg season game <that cost them seeding>, cost him dearly).   But that's about it.  

I'll be clear - I still think there's a ton of risk he walks, and I hate the pick price used.  But as a pure HC / play-caller, yeah, he was right there with Harbaugh.  Harbaugh didn't come with the picks/risk of leaving, so easy #1.   Now that we're done and we have him, no problem with him as our HC.   Just the cost/risk of leaving down the line, but what's done is done.

[Broncofan]

6 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

I do have an element of confidence based on the fact that Payton is a good HC - and Paton is a good GM (I'll give him a pass on Hackett - every GM is allowed f*ck-up one coaching hire - and any GM in the NFL needing a QB would have made the Wilson trade). Paton has done a good job in terms of roster building and he should be encouraged to continue in the same vein. We have a good D and some pieces on offence - fix the OL and get Wilson to boderline top 10 and this team can do damage with Payton calling the plays.

I do think they might try and move Sutton for some draft capital in the next month or so.

Sutton's contract is going to make him somewhat attractive, but he's not likely going to get us more than a late Day 2 pick.   But to be clear, I'm OK with that, if Paton is.      The X-factor in our favor to getting a trade done is the FA class is really, really bad.    DJ Chark, Allen Lazard, Jakobi Meyers and Juju Smith-Schuster are the top UFA WR's available.    That's it - and really, only Chark is a non-slot guy.  The other 3 are pure slot machines.      Unlike the crazy talk of Jeudy for a 2nd/3rd, given the price and stage of his career/what he does/how he fits with Payton O - a Sutton trade isn't crazy.   Just be ready for the fact he won't get nearly the same return as he would have pre-ACL (duh).

Tim Patrick won't be as athletically strong as he was pre-ACL until 2024, though (18 months post-injury).   Just keep that in mind.   But with Hamler back (and he will be back to 100 percent explosion, being year 2 post-ACL), then I can definitely get behind it.    Jeudy as the X/slot, Patrick as the Z, Hamler as the vertical threat.    We will need to find more WR depth, but that's also an area that Payton excelled in - finding late rd / UDFA gold.    

The big thing is getting the most out of Dulcich / Albert O.    Under the Payton O, Jimmy Graham was a massive threat.   It sucks both are move TE's, but true inline TE's who are receiving mismatches are so hard to find.   I do expect we're going to use a lot more 12 formation this year as part of our commitment to power run, and play-action (I think it was @BroncoBruin who mentioned it, and he's dead on with Payton's preferences there).    It's crazy how much Dulcich was a ghost at times in the 2H, when he was healthy. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

Assuming IND & ARI don’t hire him as HC - make this happen Payton.  Fingers crossed.  
 

 

[AnAngryAmerican]

3 hours ago, champ11 said:

For sure. And goes without saying Payton could be a disaster in Denver based on our track record lol 

See the only way I see him being a “disaster” is he can’t “fix” Russ, they don’t want to take the cap hit, hold onto him for a year or two longer than they should and then Sean bolts back to Fox or another team after just a few years. As far as him as a HC, I’m not too worried (I’ll add the caveat I wasn’t worried about Russ either and all know how that’s turned out lol). 

Sean is a veteran coach, whose teams have always been competitive, well-prepared, and play disciplined football (remember he comes from the Parcells tree). He’s very much the adult in the room type and his reputation alone will provide the instant, necessary and near universal locker room and building buy-in. He does well on the gameday type stuff at which a HC needs to excel - he’s the best gameday coach we’ve had since Mike, who was one of the very best of all time. 

The questions are is he in it for the long haul, for likely the post-Russ era, whenever that comes. And, with the picks we’ve traded for him and the contract we gave Russ, can even a coach of his caliber coach up a roster to a level where we can compete in a conference that has teams led by the likes of Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, Allen, Lawrence and (likely) Jackson? 

[AnAngryAmerican]

3 hours ago, jolly red giant said:

Kubiak did a remarkable job during the SB year - Manning was dead on his feet and Kubiak's ability to hold everything together and keep the ball rolling up to and winning the SB should not be underestimated. In my view it was one of the best single year efforts from a HC in the history of the NFL.

Jeff Legwold, and say what you want about him, he’s not one for hyperbole, said the job Kubiak did in 2015 is the best single season coaching job he’s ever seen, for precisely the reasons you point out. 

[broncos67]

12 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Jeff Legwold, and say what you want about him, he’s not one for hyperbole, said the job Kubiak did in 2015 is the best single season coaching job he’s ever seen, for precisely the reasons you point out. 

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

We swing for the fences here. Sean has HOF coach potential. With him at the helm a Lombardi is not a pipe dream.

 

he also had by far the lowest floor. If Russ can’t be fixed and Sean decides that he’d rather be in the booth…. We’re looking at being the saints of the 80s/90s, the browns of the 90s/00s or the lions of the….well… always. At least for the next 5-6 years, which would put us at 12-15 years of losing.

Don’t F- us Sean. 

[broncosfan_101]

7 hours ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

We swing for the fences here. Sean has HOF coach potential. With him at the helm a Lombardi is not a pipe dream.

 

he also had by far the lowest floor. If Russ can’t be fixed and Sean decides that he’d rather be in the booth…. We’re looking at being the saints of the 80s/90s, the browns of the 90s/00s or the lions of the….well… always. At least for the next 5-6 years, which would put us at 12-15 years of losing.

Don’t F- us Sean. 

I would personally be *shocked* if Payton took this job solely on the belief that he can fix Russ. It’s much more likely that he’s realistic about Russ’s current abilities and is willing to groom a young QB if Russ continues his descent towards the unemployment line. 

[jolly red giant]

Desai has told the Vikings that he doesn't want any further consideration for the DC vacancy - and apparently Fangio recommended Desai to Payton (they worked together in Chicago).

[champ11]

On 2/2/2023 at 2:05 PM, AnAngryAmerican said:

See the only way I see him being a “disaster” is he can’t “fix” Russ, they don’t want to take the cap hit, hold onto him for a year or two longer than they should and then Sean bolts back to Fox or another team after just a few years. As far as him as a HC, I’m not too worried (I’ll add the caveat I wasn’t worried about Russ either and all know how that’s turned out lol). 

Sean is a veteran coach, whose teams have always been competitive, well-prepared, and play disciplined football (remember he comes from the Parcells tree). He’s very much the adult in the room type and his reputation alone will provide the instant, necessary and near universal locker room and building buy-in. He does well on the gameday type stuff at which a HC needs to excel - he’s the best gameday coach we’ve had since Mike, who was one of the very best of all time. 

The questions are is he in it for the long haul, for likely the post-Russ era, whenever that comes. And, with the picks we’ve traded for him and the contract we gave Russ, can even a coach of his caliber coach up a roster to a level where we can compete in a conference that has teams led by the likes of Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, Allen, Lawrence and (likely) Jackson? 

If that's how people feel I'm confused why they are stressed. If we're confident he's going to be a good head coach - we are likely to turn this thing around in a way that we have not been able to for years. People gotta be a little optimistic and loosen up! 

[Broncofan]

On 2/3/2023 at 1:42 AM, broncosfan_101 said:

I would personally be *shocked* if Payton took this job solely on the belief that he can fix Russ. It’s much more likely that he’s realistic about Russ’s current abilities and is willing to groom a young QB if Russ continues his descent towards the unemployment line. 

Payton's got more cache in his coaching dossier than we do as an org right now - but he has to also believe that with the hit to his rep with a 2nd exit when things get rough, he probably can't just cut and run if things don't work out with Russ, right?   Right?  Right?  

That's the only real fear that's an outright disaster - but it's there.    I am hopeful he can fix Russ to where we can right the ship, but even if Russ isn't fixable - if Payton's willing to stick it out and develop the next guy, then it's all good (again, I wouldn't have paid the pick price, but what's done is done).    Given he just did that in NO, well, I share the concern - but I also do keep in mind Payton spent 15+ seasons before this occurred to him, too.
 

I would have preferred 6-7 years to really lock him in, but with a 5-year contract, we'll own his rights long before Russell Wilson is gone if that doesn't work, and own his rights for several years beyond a failed Russ era.   That's some insurance.  Really, we hope that he has to have a 2nd contract with us - in that event, it will justify the picks if he's still our head coach as we approach 2030.  He's locked in until 2027, so really now we can just worry about whether he can fix Russ, and even shorter-term, who he's bringing in.   But yeah, as far as the pure HC aspects are, zero concerns.   

Edited February 4, 2023 by Broncofan