The STL Cardinals Thread - Welcome to STL JJ!

[Leader]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

We're making a LOT of assumptions.  I'm not sure that years of control is the only factor.  Right now, if I were to rank the Cardinals' assets, I'd rank them:

(Tier 1)
1.) Jordan Walker
2.) Dylan Carlson
(Tier 2)
3.) Masyn Winn
3.) Nolan Gorman
4.) Tyler O'Neill
5.) Tink Hence
(Tier 3)
6.) Matt Liberatore
7.) Gordon Graceffo
8.) Zack Thompson
9.) Michael McGreevy
10.) Ivan Herrera
11.) Harrison Bader

And that's more in general, not team-specific.  Broke it into tiers to make things easier on the eyes rather than a straight list.

If the NYYs aren't going to get this guy (and with Judge around, I suspect they'll get outbid) I wouldnt mind him going to STL. Keep him in the National League. Good luck.

[kgarrett12486]

8 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

You don't make deals operating under the assumption that the player is going to get hurt.  IF the Cardinals made a deal based around Jordan Walker (that didn't include O'Neill, Bader, or Carlson), they'd run Carlson out in CF until Bader gets healthy, and then you'd likely see O'Neill move to DH until they want to give one of the other OFers a day off.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying having the surplus allows you to possibly making another deal in addition to bolster.

Say we kept all the MLB OF's in the Soto deal ( O'Neill, Bader, Carlson,. Yepez). Then your OF becomes O'Neill/Carlson/Soto for the stretch run since Bader's health is still unknown and likely won't be back before end of august at earliest). 

If they wanted to still go get that SP, they could use that surplus to package around. I'll use this example, because I've heard this rumor - The Marlins have interest in O'Neill, so we look at flipping him + a prospect for Pablo Lopez.

You'd still be able to have an OF of Donovan/Yepez, Carlson, Soto. If Bader comes back healthy, he slides back into CF and Carlson slides to LF. Yepez goes back to DH and spot OF duty, while Donovan continues the super sub role. 

Not saying this would happen, but they wouldn't be locked into keeping them all.  

[CWood21]

5 hours ago, CWood21 said:

We're making a LOT of assumptions.  I'm not sure that years of control is the only factor.  Right now, if I were to rank the Cardinals' assets, I'd rank them:

(Tier 1)
1.) Jordan Walker
2.) Dylan Carlson
(Tier 2)
3.) Masyn Winn
3.) Nolan Gorman
4.) Tyler O'Neill
5.) Tink Hence
(Tier 3)
6.) Matt Liberatore
7.) Gordon Graceffo
8.) Zack Thompson
9.) Michael McGreevy
10.) Ivan Herrera
11.) Harrison Bader

And that's more in general, not team-specific.  Broke it into tiers to make things easier on the eyes rather than a straight list.

Building a Cardinals' package:

Dylan Carlson/Jordan Walker - This is the Nationals' headliner piece.  They can choose one of the two of them, but I'm not taking back Patrick Corbin's contract if I'm dealing Jordan Walker.  I think there's an iteration of a Juan Soto deal that includes them both, but the only way the Cardinals could/would conceivably relinquish both would be if the Nationals kept Corbin and the rest of the package was more organizational fillers and/or lottery ticket prospects in the lower parts of the farm system.  It's hard to fathom giving up 10 years of team control even if it is for Juan Soto, and the right to hand him a crap ton of money.

Nolan Gorman/Masyn Winn - I think this is the second big piece to decide upon.  Do the Nationals prefer to gamble on Masyn Winn's upside or do they take the MLB-ready Nolan Gorman?  I think the Cardinals could afford to move Nolan Gorman as they'd run with a Brendan Donovan/Tommy Edman MIF until Masyn Winn was ready in a year or so.

Tink Hence/Matt Liberatore - Probably the third big question.  Do the Nationals again prioritize upside or do they gamble on someone who is a bit closer?  Tink Hence is probably 2-3 years away from being MLB ready, while Liberatore can probably be put into the rotation now and probably is at least league average.  I'm not sure I buy the concept that the Nationals don't want him.  IF the Nationals prefer Tink Hence, I think it'd be paired with someone like Michael McGreevy or Gordon Graceffo as the ancillary pieces.

The ancillary pieces probably come out of that third tier of players, and some of the guys in the lower minors.

[kgarrett12486]

Mike Rizzo (Nationals GM) came out today and said publicly they have had no discussions with other teams in Soto talks where they would attach Patrick Corbin (he actually laughed at the idea). He said they will not diminish any return on Soto by including a salary dump. 

Being that it's coming straight from the horse's mouth, I think it's unlikely Corbin is in a potential deal. Meaning we're 100% going to have to deal Jordan Walker in a potential deal...

[ttitansfan4life]

So we’re not getting Soto before Friday are we? Going to the game Friday and was hoping it would get done by then…. 😂

[StLunatic88]

2 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Being that it's coming straight from the horse's mouth, I think it's unlikely Corbin is in a potential deal. Meaning we're 100% going to have to deal Jordan Walker in a potential deal...

J.Walker + N.Gorman + M.Liberatore + G.Graceffo + A.Burleson

Thats my prediction if Corbin is not attached. And Id do it in a heartbeat. Leaves plenty of other prospects to grab an Arm as well

[tttmikeb]

2 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Mike Rizzo (Nationals GM) came out today and said publicly they have had no discussions with other teams in Soto talks where they would attach Patrick Corbin (he actually laughed at the idea). He said they will not diminish any return on Soto by including a salary dump. 

Being that it's coming straight from the horse's mouth, I think it's unlikely Corbin is in a potential deal. Meaning we're 100% going to have to deal Jordan Walker in a potential deal...

I read that as well.  Also heard a report today from Jeff Jones of the Belleville News-Democrat that names have been exchanged between us & WAS, and that Gorman & Corbin were discussed.  

At this point, I'm trying not to get too deep into this.  I allowed myself to get excited about Tkachuk potentially coming to the Blues, and that obviously didn't work out.  I don't know if I can take that kind of disappointment again. 😆

[ttitansfan4life]

Sheesh 

[ThatJerkDave]

6 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said:

So we’re not getting Soto before Friday are we? Going to the game Friday and was hoping it would get done by then…. 😂

A rumor that I just made up said that Soto will not play for the Cardinals in the month of July as per part of the trade deal.

[CWood21]

12 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Mike Rizzo (Nationals GM) came out today and said publicly they have had no discussions with other teams in Soto talks where they would attach Patrick Corbin (he actually laughed at the idea). He said they will not diminish any return on Soto by including a salary dump. 

Being that it's coming straight from the horse's mouth, I think it's unlikely Corbin is in a potential deal. Meaning we're 100% going to have to deal Jordan Walker in a potential deal...

I don't believe it for a second.  What is he supposed to say?  That the Nationals will take a lesser offer if they're able to unload Corbin.

[holt_bruce81]

Nice bounce back tonight. Being without our 2 best hitters and how the Jays have been playing lately, I'll gladly take a split. Gorman needed those 2 hits tonight, he's been struggling big time lately, hopefully tonight gets him going a little bit. Hopefully Washington was watching. 

Speaking of the Nats and Soto, man if Mo can somehow work out a trade for Soto while Keeping Walker - Carlson - Hence give him a contract extension immediately. 

 

 

[holt_bruce81]

13 hours ago, tttmikeb said:

I read that as well.  Also heard a report today from Jeff Jones of the Belleville News-Democrat that names have been exchanged between us & WAS, and that Gorman & Corbin were discussed.  

At this point, I'm trying not to get too deep into this.  I allowed myself to get excited about Tkachuk potentially coming to the Blues, and that obviously didn't work out.  I don't know if I can take that kind of disappointment again. 😆

Yeah but I want that same feeling i had when I saw Tkachuk got traded to Florida. At first i was disappointed but then when I saw what Florida had to give up I was like...eh yeah i'm ok with that. If Soto goes anywhere else, I want that feeling. But if he gets traded to like the Dodgers for their #7, #15 and #23 best prospects +$1 million in cash, I'm gonna be a little pissed off. 

Speaking of Tkachuk though. Thank goodness I don't bet nearly as much as I used too, I would of put waaaay to much money down on him landing in St. Louis. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by holt_bruce81

[kgarrett12486]

6 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I don't believe it for a second.  What is he supposed to say?  That the Nationals will take a lesser offer if they're able to unload Corbin.

He could have just said they're considering all options. Or that they're going to take the return they feel is best no matter who is included in the deal. Simple as that.

[StLunatic88]

That’s all that Benintendi went for?? 

Not that we needed an OF (Soto is a special circumstance), but the non-Soto market might be very soft if that’s any indicator. Benny was one of the best bats on the market (I don’t believe Reynolds is truly available)

Seems like we could scoop up an arm or two for pretty cheap, independent of our Soto dealings. Although I do believe that’s what is holding everything else up

Edited July 28, 2022 by StLunatic88

[JonStark]

7 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I don't believe it for a second.  What is he supposed to say?  That the Nationals will take a lesser offer if they're able to unload Corbin.

I do. If the Nats aren't playing for anything and looking for younger players, why do they care about having Corbin's big contract right now? Just eat it for the next few years while you rebuild and by the time you're ready to contend, it'll be off the books. No point in lessening the package when there's no real benefit in unloading him now.