Post-Draft Talk

[big_palooka]

40 minutes ago, G said:

McDaniels has also underperformed up to this point in his HC career. After this season if he underperforms again we move on and replace him. 'Z' will be evaluated on his HC search. 

Plain and simple...WE NEED TO WIN!  This fanbase will never unite without WINS!

Need to construct a roster that can consistently win first. Even in the Raider last 2 winning seasons, a lot of the wins are fluky and unsustainable. The roster just has never been truly good, especially on defense. 

[G]

20 hours ago, big_palooka said:

The offseason was about rebuilding. I think they did a good job getting better depth with potential for guys like Young, Wilson, Smith and Bennett to have an impact this season. Offense will be potent. Defense will suspect, but with some potential in the young group. 

 

If it's truly about rebuilding, then I hope they didn't pass on any trade down opportunities in the 1st round. Wilson is a solid pick with upside but adding 2nd-3rd round picks would have helped fill a lot of holes on this roster. 

I think not having a 1st or 2nd last season they wanted to make a splash in those rounds this season. Though I'd waited til the 3rd for a TE, I think it's wise to trade up a little and lock in a falling 1st round talent and who some saw as the #1 TE and having the most well rounded game of all the TE's.  

Last year Parham was better than expected so if we have that kind of talk about 2023 3rd round picks midway through the season then I'll start to believe longer term but...I have more than doubts. One more crap season and I probably stop watching all together. Sucks because I'm not that far from the stadium and it would be nice to be excited. Got a feeling the visiting teams fans will be more fun. Las Vegas the entertainment capital of the world...

[G]

13 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Need to construct a roster that can consistently win first. Even in the Raider last 2 winning seasons, a lot of the wins are fluky and unsustainable. The roster just has never been truly good, especially on defense. 

Agreed I just don't think McDaniels is the guy to do that. 

[big_palooka]

Comments from NFL executive on all 32 teams drafts:

https://theathletic.com/4490198/2023/05/05/nfl-draft-class-analysis-execs-unfiltered/?source=targeted_email&campaign=6774291&email_login=courthenry%40mac.com

On the Raiders:

Quote

Based on game tape, The Athletic’s Randy Mueller rated Tyree Wilson as his No. 2 player in the draft. Another longtime evaluator ranked Wilson at the top, calling him more impressive than Cleveland’s Myles Garrett.

“Nobody blocked his *** — nobody,” this evaluator said.

“We really liked Wilson and thought he was better than Jalen Carter, better than Will Anderson,” an exec said.

The catch: a foot injury that could be a problem in the future.

“Tyree Wilson is a scary proposition, but he is talented,” another exec said. “Michael Mayer is a good pick. Tre Tucker, Jakorian Bennett, those guys can run. Aidan O’Connell is like a statue, cannot move, but he makes fast decisions, so it’s interesting that Josh McDaniels took him, when (Tom) Brady was that way.”

Mayer replaces Darren Waller, who the Raiders traded for a third-round pick that became Tucker, a receiver from Cincinnati.

“I like the Raider tight end for what they do,” an exec said. “They do all that play-action stuff where they get the tight end uncovered. He doesn’t have to beat a guy. Think of all the times Gronk just ran up the seam and they threw it to him because they had great play-action. Waller could have done those things too, but he wasn’t healthy, wasn’t on the field.”

 

[raidr4life]

7 minutes ago, G said:

Agreed I just don't think McDaniels is the guy to do that. 

I think he's constructed a pretty good offense that's going to be fun to watch, the OL was actually solid 2nd half of the season as they started to gel except for Bars so him not starting is an upgrade in itself.

[big_palooka]

9 minutes ago, G said:

If it's truly about rebuilding, then I hope they didn't pass on any trade down opportunities in the 1st round. Wilson is a solid pick with upside but adding 2nd-3rd round picks would have helped fill a lot of holes on this roster. 

I think not having a 1st or 2nd last season they wanted to make a splash in those rounds this season. Though I'd waited til the 3rd for a TE, I think it's wise to trade up a little and lock in a falling 1st round talent and who some saw as the #1 TE and having the most well rounded game of all the TE's.  

Last year Parham was better than expected so if we have that kind of talk about 2023 3rd round picks midway through the season then I'll start to believe longer term but...I have more than doubts. One more crap season and I probably stop watching all together. Sucks because I'm not that far from the stadium and it would be nice to be excited. Got a feeling the visiting teams fans will be more fun. Las Vegas the entertainment capital of the world...

Rebuilding isn't about quantity, it's about quality. The Raiders issue is, they lack quality talent.

Most execs said there were 12-15 guys with round 1 grades on their board. The Raiders got 2 of those on their board. 

If Wilson and Mayer have the top 15 player impact they are capable of, then trading down for a collection of JAGs is not the smartest move. Everyone gets caught up in all the "names" in the draft. But reality is, there are only a handful of good players in every draft. 

You win in this league with good talent. Depth is important, but you have to have impact at the top and that's what Wilson and Mayer represent here. 

[G]

44 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Rebuilding isn't about quantity, it's about quality. The Raiders issue is, they lack quality talent.

Most execs said there were 12-15 guys with round 1 grades on their board. The Raiders got 2 of those on their board. 

If Wilson and Mayer have the top 15 player impact they are capable of, then trading down for a collection of JAGs is not the smartest move. Everyone gets caught up in all the "names" in the draft. But reality is, there are only a handful of good players in every draft. 

You win in this league with good talent. Depth is important, but you have to have impact at the top and that's what Wilson and Mayer represent here. 

I see where you're coming from with top 15 players. I'm thinking Jimmy Johnson Dallas Cowboys dynasty model. Irvin, Aikman and Emmitt all went through the growing pains and were top talent. However other than Charles Haliey I think the entire Defense was JAGesque players that improved over time or rookies that grew. Dallas had a need and would double dip. They were able to do that because of the draft capital from Walker trade. Browns tried to do a similar approach by just aquiring picks but they didn't get the best QB so it held them back but they did improve as a team. Miami recently had the same gameplan. As far as the Pats dynasty that's Brady and Bill. Brady taking team friendly deals and Bill willing to let vets walk in FA. Winning also attracted vets to play there on the cheaper deals. They traded down a lot in drafts but it didn't work out as well as it should have (esp. WR's and some vets too) and that might be the system is too complex for a lot of guys. Well we have that system currently and the jury is still out on that system. The only thing I think that is good about our current set up is it should make those who make it tougher. That might not translate to what we need on the field right away but hopefully pays dividends at some point. It just seems like we were in a 3 year window and all of last years moves confirmed that. Then they realized we SUCK and need a full rebuild and Davis gave it his blessing and said you've got two more years to show improvement because McDaniels seat didn't even seem luke warm. lol

[ronjon1990]

3 hours ago, G said:

Agreed I just don't think McDaniels is the guy to do that. 

If McDaniels and Zeigler showed they could be more than a one-trick pony, they'd get a lot more support. 

Counting the Adams trade, we've used 9 out of a possible 17 picks on offense, and have a grand total of 1 defensive player that's likely a surefire starter. The only other defensive player they've taken prior to round 4 was arguably a bit of a reach. 

We've traded for offensive players. We've used most of our FA money to sign offensive players. We've the vast majority of our best draft capital on offense. And yet we still have a lot of holes readily apparent (OG, OT, C, QB) or impending (RB? WR if Adams throws in the towel? WR3 if we indeed move Renfrow?). 

On defense, it's practically criminal what they've done (or rather, haven't done) to address CB and LB. 

All while creating new holes to fill out of nowhere. I fail to see where we have actually made forward moves from where we started, and I don't think they have a plan beyond "get our guys in here". When? By 2028 for a "complete" team? Everyone keeps throwing out the "You can't fix it in one year" line, but...um.... they've now had two to address the D and have hardly done so. That leaves one year left for the "you gotta give them 3!" crowd. So, we can't expect them to fix the D in one or two years, but we also have to have faith they'll get it done in one year during year 3? 

The issues are apparent as they could possibly be, imo. You're right, they're not the guys for the job. 

[MrOaktown_56]

I have to say I really did like our strategy.

Get the players who are most likely to be high end starters long term.

Also invest in positions of high value (DL). And trade up for your guys (e.g. chris smith, QB, mayer, etc.)

And we didn't reach on a qb.

[NYRaider]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:58 AM, big_palooka said:

Rebuilding isn't about quantity, it's about quality. The Raiders issue is, they lack quality talent.

Since Ziegler took over he has spent 4 top 150 picks on defensive players, 1 top 150 pick on OL, and the team currently ranks 29th in cap space allocated to the defense / 24th in cap space allocated to the OL. 

#LetHimCook

[Frankie2Gunz]

On 5/6/2023 at 11:55 AM, ronjon1990 said:

If McDaniels and Zeigler showed they could be more than a one-trick pony, they'd get a lot more support. 

Counting the Adams trade, we've used 9 out of a possible 17 picks on offense, and have a grand total of 1 defensive player that's likely a surefire starter. The only other defensive player they've taken prior to round 4 was arguably a bit of a reach. 

We've traded for offensive players. We've used most of our FA money to sign offensive players. We've the vast majority of our best draft capital on offense. And yet we still have a lot of holes readily apparent (OG, OT, C, QB) or impending (RB? WR if Adams throws in the towel? WR3 if we indeed move Renfrow?). 

On defense, it's practically criminal what they've done (or rather, haven't done) to address CB and LB. 

All while creating new holes to fill out of nowhere. I fail to see where we have actually made forward moves from where we started, and I don't think they have a plan beyond "get our guys in here". When? By 2028 for a "complete" team? Everyone keeps throwing out the "You can't fix it in one year" line, but...um.... they've now had two to address the D and have hardly done so. That leaves one year left for the "you gotta give them 3!" crowd. So, we can't expect them to fix the D in one or two years, but we also have to have faith they'll get it done in one year during year 3? 

The issues are apparent as they could possibly be, imo. You're right, they're not the guys for the job. 

This D will cost the team many wins this season and you're right on D in terms of not addressing CB or LB.  Flat out incompetence. I also think the larger issue is not addressing the 3T position with a player who can push the pocket while bing stout against the run.  I would have rather used the picks that we traded for Adams for a deal with Washington for Payne.  

This will be an interesting year for Raider fans.  Jacobs is holding out and clearly not happy, Adams is one year older and playing with the worst QB of his career, Carr is gone and playing in NO, the D once again projects to be amongst the worst in football.  

The Jacobs situation is interesting and from my prospective Jacobs has the advantage in the negotiation process.  Everyone knows that JM plans to run Jacobs into the ground and Jacobs wants to get paid if he is going to take that abuse on a team that projects to win 4ish games.  It's rare for a player to hold out going into the season but I feel that may occur here unless a long term deal can be reached. 

JM is clearly on the hot seat and without Jacobs this team is a lock for a top 3 pick.  If a top 3 pick is indeed the case JM will most certainly be canned.  The threat of this alone give Jacobs a tremendous advantage.  

I also think Jm is stubborn and refuses to pay RB's on long term deals, after all that is the Patriot way.  

[raidr4life]

23 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

This D will cost the team many wins this season and you're right on D in terms of not addressing CB or LB.  Flat out incompetence. I also think the larger issue is not addressing the 3T position with a player who can push the pocket while bing stout against the run.  I would have rather used the picks that we traded for Adams for a deal with Washington for Payne.  

This will be an interesting year for Raider fans.  Jacobs is holding out and clearly not happy, Adams is one year older and playing with the worst QB of his career, Carr is gone and playing in NO, the D once again projects to be amongst the worst in football.  

The Jacobs situation is interesting and from my prospective Jacobs has the advantage in the negotiation process.  Everyone knows that JM plans to run Jacobs into the ground and Jacobs wants to get paid if he is going to take that abuse on a team that projects to win 4ish games.  It's rare for a player to hold out going into the season but I feel that may occur here unless a long term deal can be reached. 

JM is clearly on the hot seat and without Jacobs this team is a lock for a top 3 pick.  If a top 3 pick is indeed the case JM will most certainly be canned.  The threat of this alone give Jacobs a tremendous advantage.  

I also think Jm is stubborn and refuses to pay RB's on long term deals, after all that is the Patriot way.  

Same post for the 20th time. Just copy and paste save yourself some time.

Edited May 13, 2023 by raidr4life