Sandy Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 45 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Cooper Beebe is a great old school gap guard prospect, guys is built like Tausch. PFF will always grade a prospect on the full spectrum, thus if they don't project him doing something well at the next level (combo blocking and getting up to the second level + being able to explode off the line to hit a tough aligned reach block) they won't grade him highly. A mostly gap team might see a top 40 pick there. A zone team may not have Beebe on their board. I highly doubt he's a Packer, we value OL athletic testing and I don't think he's going to be anywhere near our thresholds. Agreed, might be a good player but not in this offense. 43 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Kinchens allowed 28/34 passes completed against him, big time feast or famine guy in coverage. No way he goes top 24, might be able to get him at 41 depending on how the league views some of the other safeties. Nubin is by far the better player, but 2 years older. It's such a bad draft for safeties that Kinchens could go in the late first to a desperate team. I've got no interest in him personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 5 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said: You mean Cole Bishop (Utah), Jaden Hicks (Wash St.), and James Williams (Miami safety alongside Kamren Kinchens). I like Hicks (6'3", 212, 4.59) as he is meant to be a fierce tackler, while Williams has crazy size for safety (6'5", 215, 4.45). Note that the really tall guys often lack the agility for the position - see previous Packer pick Aaron Rouse, who was 6'4", 223, 4.59. There is also Bullock (USC) but he is just too skinny (6'3" and probably less than 190lb). Georgia safety Tykee Smith is another undersized but solidly built safety for round 3/4 (5.10, 205, 4.50). Finally, Missouri safety Jaylon Carlies (6'3", 219, 4.50) is a height/weight/speed guy who needs to improve his reading of the game and could be a target with the 5th round comp pick. Malik Mustapha from Wake Forest (see above video clip) is a very fast, solidly built safety (5'11", 207, 4.33) who could be a second safety pickup (paired with an earlier more game-ready pick) and a nice developmental guy. Very limited highlight watching from me but, I really liked the tackling of Kinchens. I do know that I always love the 6'3+ safeties, and I am sure that I will really like one of them once the workout numbers come in. Loved Rouse, Taylor Mays, Sean Richardson, none of them ever seem to be worth anything long term in the NFL, but it fools me every time. I think I like the idea of the player that can match up size wise to TEs but not get blown by when a WR comes in. But those types of athletes are playing basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Not a Kinchens guy myself 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sandy said: Agreed, might be a good player but not in this offense. It's such a bad draft for safeties that Kinchens could go in the late first to a desperate team. I've got no interest in him personally. If you don't like Kinchens (and I can see why you don't), there are always the CB/S conversions, or perhaps positionally versatile is a better description. The most obvious is Cooper DeJean..............but less obvious is Terrion Arnold the Alabama CB who has played safety and is 6'0", 196, 4.45. He is seen as a good tackler (which GB needs). He is maybe an inch shorter, 8lbs lighter and a little faster than DeJean. From Draft Buzz (my go-to site this year) In 2023, he increased his playing time to 13 games with 780 snaps. His performance also improved with 47 tackles, 13 assists, 21 stops, alongside 12 pass breakups, 5 interceptions, and an elite quarterback rating when targeted of 52.5. He might be there at 25, but also might go around #20. In my latest draft attempt (nflmockdraft simulator) (no trades) I gave a little more emphasis on DBs and a bit less on O line, which got me: CB Terrion Arnold Alabama RB Blake Corum Michigan S Javon Bullard Georgia ILB Payton Wilson N.C.State C (G?) Sedrick Van Pran Georgia S Jaden Hicks Washington St. K Will Reichard Alabama I liked every single pick here (not always the case, in fact quite rare). Also, every prospect (except Payton Wilson) was a big program guy. I missed on the slot corner Sainistril (who went quite late, at #120). Could almost (but not quite) have had him instead of Hicks (#126) Edited January 25 by OneTwoSixFive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, The Truth said: Savage has proven to be a liability despite the infrequent good play. This defense needs to improve and Savage does not make us better. Just remember half of Packer fandom hated Nick Collins before Dom Capers came in. Savage has the physical ability to be an elite “free” safety. We’ve seen him flash this multiple times. He’s shown some serious whiffs on tackling, so I don’t think he could come back and turn into some elite well-rounded safety, but I think he’s absolutely capable of becoming a plus Darren Sharper type who could take the ball away and cause a QB to second guess himself depending on our new defensive coordinator/scheme. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattlipp Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 10 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said: Malik Mustapha is fast fast fast And who wouldn’t want a Mustapha jersey…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brat&Beer Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, MacReady said: Just remember half of Packer fandom hated Nick Collins before Dom Capers came in. Savage has the physical ability to be an elite “free” safety. We’ve seen him flash this multiple times. He’s shown some serious whiffs on tackling, so I don’t think he could come back and turn into some elite well-rounded safety, but I think he’s absolutely capable of becoming a plus Darren Sharper type who could take the ball away and cause a QB to second guess himself depending on our new defensive coordinator/scheme. Savage is a 5 year veteran. Is there really much chance of him becoming something he isn't by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattlipp Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, OneTwoSixFive said: If you don't like Kinchens (and I can see why you don't), there are always the CB/S conversions, or perhaps positionally versatile is a better description. The most obvious is Cooper DeJean..............but less obvious is Terrion Arnold the Alabama CB who has played safety and is 6'0", 196, 4.45. He is seen as a good tackler (which GB needs). He is maybe an inch shorter, 8lbs lighter and a little faster than DeJean. From Draft Buzz (my go-to site this year) In 2023, he increased his playing time to 13 games with 780 snaps. His performance also improved with 47 tackles, 13 assists, 21 stops, alongside 12 pass breakups, 5 interceptions, and an elite quarterback rating when targeted of 52.5. He might be there at 25, but also might go around #20. In my latest draft attempt (nflmockdraft simulator) (no trades) I gave a little more emphasis on DBs and a bit less on O line, which got me: CB Terrion Arnold Alabama RB Blake Corum Michigan S Javon Bullard Georgia ILB Payton Wilson N.C.State C (G?) Sedrick Van Pran Georgia S Jaden Hicks Washington St. K Will Reichard Alabama I liked every single pick here (not always the case, in fact quite rare). Also, every prospect (except Payton Wilson) was a big program guy. I missed on the slot corner Sainistril (who went quite late, at #120). Could almost (but not quite) have had him instead of Hicks (#126) Nice site, mine 1 trade 2024: Round 2, Pick 61 2024: Round 4, Pick 129 2024: Round 5, Pick 171 Kansas City Receives: 2024: Round 2, Pick 58 25 Cooper DeJean CB | Iowa 41 Graham Barton IOL | Duke 61 Edgerrin Cooper LB | Texas A&M TRADE 88 Cooper Beebe IOL | Kansas State 91 Javon Bullard S | Georgia 126 Jaden Hicks S | Washington State 129 Darius Robinson DL | Missouri TRADE 167 Zion Tupuola-Fetui EDGE | Washington 171 Chau Smith-Wade CB | Washington State TRADE 203 Malik Mustapha S | Wake Forest 215 Rasheen Ali RB | Marshall 242 Andrew Raym IOL | Oklahoma 250 L.J. Johnson Jr. RB | SMU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, MacReady said: Just remember half of Packer fandom hated Nick Collins before Dom Capers came in. Savage has the physical ability to be an elite “free” safety. We’ve seen him flash this multiple times. He’s shown some serious whiffs on tackling, so I don’t think he could come back and turn into some elite well-rounded safety, but I think he’s absolutely capable of becoming a plus Darren Sharper type who could take the ball away and cause a QB to second guess himself depending on our new defensive coordinator/scheme. Savage had to be doing something right in coverage this year. I don't remember the long plays given up, but I do remember him being around the ball. A deep safety, or coverage safety is so hard to judge just because we don't really see what they are doing back there. Until they come up to make a tackle and whiff, then it's all negative. I'm at the point where I'd actually be happy to have Savage back with the team, so long as....ahem....we kick those tires and it is on a team friendly deal. All kidding aside, I feel like he probably had a better year of play this year than I could give him credit for because we just don't see it on the screen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) @fattlipp I knew (and liked) the first 6 picks, anyway and have taken all of them more than once. The rest I don't know. Edited January 25 by OneTwoSixFive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 23 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Savage had to be doing something right in coverage this year. I don't remember the long plays given up, but I do remember him being around the ball. A deep safety, or coverage safety is so hard to judge just because we don't really see what they are doing back there. Until they come up to make a tackle and whiff, then it's all negative. I'm at the point where I'd actually be happy to have Savage back with the team, so long as....ahem....we kick those tires and it is on a team friendly deal. All kidding aside, I feel like he probably had a better year of play this year than I could give him credit for because we just don't see it on the screen. Well, we only had 7 INTs on the season. Rudy Ford was the only player to have more than one, and he had two. Our safeties did get in on a lot of tackles though, Owens, Ford, and Savage were all top 6 in tackles for the team, and none of them started the whole season. Whether they limit the defense, or the defense limits them, I do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 12 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: Well, we only had 7 INTs on the season. Rudy Ford was the only player to have more than one, and he had two. Our safeties did get in on a lot of tackles though, Owens, Ford, and Savage were all top 6 in tackles for the team, and none of them started the whole season. Whether they limit the defense, or the defense limits them, I do not know. 7 picks seems like one of those stats you get to at the end of simming a Madden season and say "7 picks for the whole season? This game engine is broken." Thanks Joe.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, Brat&Beer said: Savage is a 5 year veteran. Is there really much chance of him becoming something he isn't by now? Has Savage been bad though? If the front 7 does their job, we shouldn’t even see much of Savage based on what he’s supposed to be doing. As Vegas pointed out, I didn’t even know Savage was healthy for most of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusGluteus Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 4 hours ago, Packerraymond said: Cooper Beebe is a great old school gap guard prospect, guys is built like Tausch. PFF will always grade a prospect on the full spectrum, thus if they don't project him doing something well at the next level (combo blocking and getting up to the second level + being able to explode off the line to hit a tough aligned reach block) they won't grade him highly. A mostly gap team might see a top 40 pick there. A zone team may not have Beebe on their board. I highly doubt he's a Packer, we value OL athletic testing and I don't think he's going to be anywhere near our thresholds. 100% I swear the dude is as wide as he is tall and he moves and runs like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 44 minutes ago, MacReady said: Has Savage been bad though? If the front 7 does their job, we shouldn’t even see much of Savage based on what he’s supposed to be doing. As Vegas pointed out, I didn’t even know Savage was healthy for most of the year. Savage played in 10 games. He had 1 PD and 51 total tackles. Was he good or bad? Kind of hard to say. Most of the time you do not see the safety other than cleaning up a tackle at the end of the play, or he gets burnt to a crisp. I will say that we got more PDs, turnovers, tackles and a sack out of Jonathan Owens, in just one more start. Savage was a 2.4 million dollar cap hit to Owens' 1.0. Seems to me that there is better value to be had. [edit] regular season stats. Savage did have the INT vs Dallas, and both he and Owens made a few tackles in the playoffs. Edited January 25 by ThatJerkDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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