Ozzy Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 8 hours ago, Purplepride323 said: I know you didn’t watch any of his games and even if you did, maybe you were just too oblivious to notice his good play. Here, watch this. Frist series got sacked basically three times, fumbled and missed a throw over the middle. But sure he does make good plays at times and did in this game, but honestly not sure it is a great evaluation tool because it is against a bad Indiana team with maybe one pro prospect on the entire defense, and the game was a 52-7 blowout so was McCarthy ever really put under pressure with score and time. No absolutely not. He is by far at his best rolling to his right, that is where he makes most of his big plays. Can make good plays if something is wide open off of a play action in the middle but simple in the pocket throws he does struggle with or simple throws to his left. Would be real interesting, when not scrambling and just sitting in the pocket feet stationary, how good is he exactly, but even that is really hard to tell when 10 out of 12 regular season games the last two years are basically 40-10 blowouts. Good athlete can move around and make wow plays running to the sideline and sure the little flips are cool he did in this one. Still he is not near the athlete though most of the scramble QBs are, most of the guys who run around like him are far bigger, stronger and actually gain yards when things are not there passing. McCarthy has never even came close to rushing for 500 yards in college and most elite duel threat guys are easily well above 500 and closer to 700 or 1000 yards rushing on a season in college. That makes them more dangerous and hard to handle at that level and in the NFL. The fact one cannot count on him as a runner despite his scrambling is an issue, he will never gain yards like Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts or Josh Allen and that is an absolute negative I would say if one wants to put running as an asset for him. Even Patrick Mahomes had almost 500 yards rushing in a season at Texas Tech and is a far thicker athlete with more power and strength than McCarthy who is pretty thin for the position. Sure maybe it is a volume issue and he was not asked to throw much and he was not asked to run much. But yeah sure, and they were still successful not because of what he did it was because of who was around him and the talent all over on the roster. Just does seem like a lot of projection, would be real interesting what JJ McCarthy would look like on say Michigan State, a pretty suspect football team with not a ton of talent on that roster currently. Sure they would be better but no way they would be as successful as Michigan has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Relax Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 11 hours ago, Ozzy said: 'There is totally that possibility, or they just take Penix or Nix this year instead of trading everything away for McCarthy. You do not trade away your entire two year 1st round pick future for a guy who is so limited and lacking in elite passing ability and he is not very elite athletically either. That is fine, do not look at one game but again the freaking dude did not have any game over 150 yards passing in his final 5 out of 6. Ozzy, your argument is not making sense to me. If a team were to have a running game and defense like Michigan had last year then there is no need for the QB to put up giant statistics. I don't hold it against McCarthy that his stats are limited. It's a just a result that Michigan won their games by running the ball and playing suffocating defense. I am NOT a McCarthy apologist! I think there are too many unknowns as to what kind of pro he might be. However, because they are unknowns, I am unwilling to state that he will be a bad QB and doesn't possess tools that can be developed. If McCarthy is the pick prior to #11 I will trust that KAM and KOC have done their diligence and are confident in the choice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 Wednesday was the final day that NFL teams could host draft prospects for visits to their facilities, but meetings can still take place elsewhere and the Vikings will take advantage of that on Thursday. Quarterback Jayden Daniels’ agent Ron Butler told Tom Pelissero of NFL Media that his client will be having dinner with members of the Vikings organization in Baton Rouge on Thursday night. Daniels spent Wednesday with the Commanders, who have the second overall pick next week. https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/jayden-daniels-vikings-to-meet-in-baton-rouge-thursday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 Bill Belichick says that in all his years in the NFL, he only saw one draft pick who arrived fully prepared to handle his job as a professional: Lawrence Taylor. Belichick: “Brady didn’t play his rookie year, you judge Tom Brady after his first year and you have literally nothing — you’re talking about the greatest player that’s ever played. Lawrence Taylor was a different story. Lawrence Taylor from Day One impacted the team, showed he was the best player on the field, way better than everyone else and built a defense around him from that point going forward. . . . It’s usually not Day One of his rookie year. I would say Lawrence Taylor would be the one exception to that rule.” Belichick was the Giants’ linebackers coach when they drafted Taylor with the second overall pick in 1981. Taylor’s exploits on the practice field in training camp quickly generated attention, he had two sacks in his first preseason game, and by the end of his rookie year he was named not only Defensive Rookie of the Year but also Defensive Player of the Year. https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/bill-belichick-no-draft-pick-is-ready-on-day-1-as-a-rookie-except-lawrence-taylor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 8 minutes ago, Captain Relax said: Ozzy, your argument is not making sense to me. If a team were to have a running game and defense like Michigan had last year then there is no need for the QB to put up giant statistics. I don't hold it against McCarthy that his stats are limited. It's a just a result that Michigan won their games by running the ball and playing suffocating defense. I am NOT a McCarthy apologist! I think there are too many unknowns as to what kind of pro he might be. However, because they are unknowns, I am unwilling to state that he will be a bad QB and doesn't possess tools that can be developed. If McCarthy is the pick prior to #11 I will trust that KAM and KOC have done their diligence and are confident in the choice. I hold it against him, he was not asked and he was not in the position time/score to do what most incoming NFL prospect QBs are asked to do. I cannot really recall any top QB prospect that is so limited as a passer and inexperienced with it, only one would be Trey Lance and that is because he only played one season of college ball. At least the rest at least put up numbers despite only starting maybe a year and a half or two. Marcus Mariota I thought was extremely limited as a passer and only got yards because of his running threat in that offense. And even he threw well over 4400 yards passing and had 700+ yards rushing at QB three years in a row. More often than not QBs on absolutely loaded college football teams that win the National Title do not always turn out in the NFL. The ones that did, well Joe Burrow is an outlier in it, and the rest are all big QBs who can run the football athletically and with power to gain yards when they are not able to pass Newton, Watson, Lawrence and Hurts. That is not including the list of the other QBs who did not turn out at all despite being on loaded college football rosters, that list is the longest. I just hope the Vikings do not trade away their future 1st rounders this year and next to select someone so ehhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 9 hours ago, Purplepride323 said: I know you didn’t watch any of his games and even if you did, maybe you were just too oblivious to notice his good play. Here, watch this. Thanks for posting a game's worth of material to review. I saw McCarthy flash a few times in that game, but I am curious how those of you that think McCarthy is a first-round talent feel about what they saw in McCarthy in that game. Did you see what you expected? Is that what you consider first round talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Relax Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 18 minutes ago, Ozzy said: I hold it against him, he was not asked and he was not in the position time/score to do what most incoming NFL prospect QBs are asked to do. I cannot really recall any top QB prospect that is so limited as a passer and inexperienced with it, only one would be Trey Lance and that is because he only played one season of college ball. At least the rest at least put up numbers despite only starting maybe a year and a half or two. Marcus Mariota I thought was extremely limited as a passer and only got yards because of his running threat in that offense. And even he threw well over 4400 yards passing and had 700+ yards rushing at QB three years in a row. More often than not QBs on absolutely loaded college football teams that win the National Title do not always turn out in the NFL. The ones that did, well Joe Burrow is an outlier in it, and the rest are all big QBs who can run the football athletically and with power to gain yards when they are not able to pass Newton, Watson, Lawrence and Hurts. That is not including the list of the other QBs who did not turn out at all despite being on loaded college football rosters, that list is the longest. I just hope the Vikings do not trade away their future 1st rounders this year and next to select someone so ehhh. I don't care if I have Mahomes, Brady, Manning, or Montana at QB...If my team can win, and win big, by running the ball and playing great defense, I am taking the ball out of the QBs hands and calling running plays after running plays. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 38 minutes ago, Ozzy said: I just hope the Vikings do not trade away their future 1st rounders this year and next to select someone so ehhh. preach it, brother! say it AGAIN! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sad People Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 (edited) Having a 72% completion % in college ≠ success in the NFL. Throwing 11 int in 2 years in college ≠ success in the NFL. Those are lazy arguments to support a narrative. NFLs best QBs in Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen dont meet either of those thresholds. I can just as lazily go and search for QBs who meet those thresholds who are busts in the NFL. Literally the 1st QB i looked up was Zach Wilson and he threw 12 INTs in 2 years of starting with a 73% completion percentage his final year. Both threw the same amount of TD in their 2 years starting. SOS supports JJ in that argument yes but Zach Wilson also wasnt on a team with 19 NFL players. Beating top defenses in college when youre on a stacked team while not being asked to put the team on your back isnt exactly the best supportive argument either. This is an Alabama QB all over again JJ's just wearing blue instead crimson. I like JJ. Dude caught my eye in 2022 as a potential NFL QB, You can go back and look for it in the college GDT here on FF. My only gripe with him is that i dont think hes worth trading up into the top 5 and letting go of 2 FRPs and then some to get him. If we could get him at #23 maybe even #11 then yeah its alot easier for me to draft him and i wouldnt have a problem with it. EDIT: JJ at #22 on the consensus big board posted above. Looks like they agree with me. But i get it QBs get pushed up come draft day because of their value in the NFL Edited April 18 by Sad People 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Any volunteers to lead the draft prediction game this year? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, Sad People said: But i get it QBs get pushed up come draft day because of their value in the NFL part of that value is their perceived longevity too. to get a 21 year old QB who is starting in a year or two, and then plays until he's 35, or older...? that's value. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gnat Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 12 minutes ago, VikeManDan said: Any volunteers to lead the draft prediction game this year? I have an idea for one, twist on previous years options, to make it easier on myself for scoring/others for scoring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 6 more sleeps! Then we can argue about the QB that the team actually drafts and not who they could draft 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlee Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 What would it take to get Washington’s pick? I do believe the Vikings want Daniels. I only think that’s possible if they get up to 2nd overall. If you can’t get that pick, I’d hope they would remain at 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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