TransientTexan Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 11 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said: " I don't know how vaccines work" is not a protected class Another strawman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 7 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said: The government did not force anyone to take the shot. Private employer can impose all sorts of conditions on its workers as long as it's not infringing on the rights of a protected class " I don't know how vaccines work" is not a protected class ok. Those in the military, could have refused... get kicked out, not be able to support your family... some choice. My argument is just what you say in your second sentence. Private employers overstepped their authority to force people to have something placed in their body as condition to work. What else can they force you to do with your body to work there? Can they force you to take birth control so you don't get pregnant and miss work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kampfgeist Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 10 minutes ago, TransientTexan said: Hilarious that you accuse others of being in a bubble, when you lazily swallow everything fed to you by the apparent “consensus”. It is impossible not to see leftist viewpoints/narrative in the public sphere given their ubiquity. Just because we find those narratives contrived & unconvincing (since we have a memory longer than 10 minute & can see when their ‘stories’ change) doesn’t mean we don’t see them. Meanwhile, it is way easier to be in a leftist ‘bubble’. I’ve yet to see a single leftist accurately describe their opponent’s positions. They only fight strawman caricatures & mind-read (imagined) motives. When I read this I'm reminded of the juggalos. The crew that all wear the same clown makeup and accuse everyone else of being the conformists. All quoting the same tired screeds. You tried hard to skip some of the buzzwords though I was able to scratch leftist, narrative, caricatures off my card in this post. Got most of the others in the previous couple. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 hours ago, Kampfgeist said: It's among my favorites along with the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Pastafarianism I thought that was pretty funny too. But I think too many of the professional atheists leaned too hard into that one. Like it was a good joke, but you hear it so many times and it gets pretty old. Kind of like "You might be a red neck" from Jeff Foxworthy, or "Huh huh huh... weed!" from Seth Rogen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 The whole argument about "the military was forced to get the COVID shot" is bizarre. Since the military has, for generations, required a huge panel of different vaccinations depending on where you're deployed, and was in fact was on the vanguard of "vaccines being a thing" (George Washington ordered smallpox innoculations, and all that.) Like the Army, Navy, or Air force can force you to get vaccinated for Japanese Encephalitis, why couldn't they force you to get vaccinated for literally anything? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddfather Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 As a health care worker the whole vaccine thing is beyond beat to death for me. I will say, I found it funny the responses I would get when asking a pt if they were vaccinated yet many of the same patients had no idea what type of pacemaker or hardware was surgically implanted in their body. It just goes to show you pacemakers and hip replacements haven't been politized as a means to keep us at each others throats. Also, I really don't care what your vaccinated status is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Kampfgeist said: When I read this I'm reminded of the juggalos. The crew that all wear the same clown makeup and accuse everyone else of being the conformists. All quoting the same tired screeds. You tried hard to skip some of the buzzwords though I was able to scratch leftist, narrative, caricatures off my card in this post. Got most of the others in the previous couple. That might be because you are brainwashed. & I noticed nowhere did you say that my words were false. there is a difference between true labels and false labels. Words still have meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 5 minutes ago, MantyWrestler said: ok. Those in the military, could have refused... get kicked out, not be able to support your family... some choice. My argument is just what you say in your second sentence. Private employers overstepped their authority to force people to have something placed in their body as condition to work. What else can they force you to do with your body to work there? Can they force you to take birth control so you don't get pregnant and miss work? now you're being intellectually dishonest We can simultaneously hold two beliefs in our heads: (1) Many people view vaccination as a personal choice (2) An individuals vaccination status (read: resistance to perpetuating disease) is a relevant characteristic for a LOT of jobs that require face-to-face interaction It's not 'overstepping authority' to recognize point (2) in the calculation. Also, to your final question: https://www.nature.com/articles/npjmgrav20168 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 3 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said: The whole argument about "the military was forced to get the COVID shot" is bizarre. Since the military has, for generations, required a huge panel of different vaccinations depending on where you're deployed, and was in fact was on the vanguard of "vaccines being a thing" (George Washington ordered smallpox innoculations, and all that.) Like the Army, Navy, or Air force can force you to get vaccinated for Japanese Encephalitis, why couldn't they force you to get vaccinated for literally anything? 3 minutes ago, Toddfather said: As a health care worker the whole vaccine thing is beyond beat to death for me. I will say, I found it funny the responses I would get when asking a pt if they were vaccinated yet many of the same patients had no idea what type of pacemaker or hardware was surgically implanted in their body. It just goes to show you pacemakers and hip replacements haven't been politized as a means to keep us at each others throats. Also, I really don't care what your vaccinated status is. To both of these points - it's astounding that (just in this thread even) people draw this grand distinction between covid-19 vaccine and...all other vaccines. The reason, of course, is politics and not science. Which makes it impossible to solve. People (I'm talking statistically in society) are making a (more) science-based decision on every other vaccine, but a political decision on the covid vaccine. It's wild stuff 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 The vax issue is actually a really good window into the conspiratorial mindset. Like sure, you could have a reasonable observation that the COVID vaccines were developed in a hurry in order to combat a global pandemic that killed a whole bunch of people. But it's been a couple of years now, so if people were really seeing negative side effects in wide numbers, but we haven't. So the conspiratorial types have to either make up fake anecdotes or strip context from real events (e.g. "Colorado man dies suddenly after vaccine" [from a car accident].) Since if you admit "well, it looks like the vaccine was fine this time" the whole house of cards that is the conspiratorial mindset starts to crumble. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 6 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said: The vax issue is actually a really good window into the conspiratorial mindset. Like sure, you could have a reasonable observation that the COVID vaccines were developed in a hurry in order to combat a global pandemic that killed a whole bunch of people. But it's been a couple of years now, so if people were really seeing negative side effects in wide numbers, but we haven't. So the conspiratorial types have to either make up fake anecdotes or strip context from real events (e.g. "Colorado man dies suddenly after vaccine" [from a car accident].) Since if you admit "well, it looks like the vaccine was fine this time" the whole house of cards that is the conspiratorial mindset starts to crumble. I never get a flu shot. Am I anti-vax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 hour ago, Old Guy said: I agree with RFK having some good ideas, but why turn your campaign into a circus act with a midget tossing contest? How does anybody take him seriously after that alleged bone-headed move? He becomes a clown as soon as he does that. Shocker alert....I agree with you. When I vote, I tend to vote for who I think is the better person for the job, almost regardless of their party. And I really like hearing RFK speak. I actually find him to be intelligent, well spoken and honest. Well, at least as honest as a politician can be. If he gets Rodgers or even Ventura as a running mate, well, that really goes against my feeling that he is intelligent. But, that is just me. No offense if others feel otherwise and vote otherwise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 3 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said: The vax issue is actually a really good window into the conspiratorial mindset. Like sure, you could have a reasonable observation that the COVID vaccines were developed in a hurry in order to combat a global pandemic that killed a whole bunch of people. But it's been a couple of years now, so if people were really seeing negative side effects in wide numbers, but we haven't. So the conspiratorial types have to either make up fake anecdotes or strip context from real events (e.g. "Colorado man dies suddenly after vaccine" [from a car accident].) Since if you admit "well, it looks like the vaccine was fine this time" the whole house of cards that is the conspiratorial mindset starts to crumble. I believe there is an inherent belief many (most?) people hold that inaction is equivalent to deferred risk in the case of the covid vaccine. Of course that's not true. The decision to NOT act (i.e. not get the vaccine) is an active choice to accept a different risk profile. People, for whatever reasons, determined their risk calculation was superior to the experts. (let's also make a distinction here between 'government' and 'experts') Of course the majority of us at the time thought that not receiving the vaccine was a bad mathematical choice, and it turns out if you're a fan of (1) maths and (2) living, getting the vaccine was the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striker Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 7 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said: The vax issue is actually a really good window into the conspiratorial mindset. Like sure, you could have a reasonable observation that the COVID vaccines were developed in a hurry in order to combat a global pandemic that killed a whole bunch of people. But it's been a couple of years now, so if people were really seeing negative side effects in wide numbers, but we haven't. So the conspiratorial types have to either make up fake anecdotes or strip context from real events (e.g. "Colorado man dies suddenly after vaccine" [from a car accident].) Since if you admit "well, it looks like the vaccine was fine this time" the whole house of cards that is the conspiratorial mindset starts to crumble. They just keep throwing new cards on to the pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 4 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: I never get a flu shot. Am I anti-vax? Every year it costs about $90 billion to treat influenza https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1885332/#:~:text=The researchers estimated annual medical,is attributable to the deaths. Getting the vaccine can reduce your odds of contracting it by 60% https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/prevention-and-screening-articles/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-flu-vaccine So, if you're a fan of not wasting taxpayers money ($323 per taxpayer) it's a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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