2023 Rookie Minicamp / OTAs / Training Camp

[Zycho32]

13 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Wonder if Wicks could be a gunner. He's big, strong and athletic. Don't see him getting a ton of opportunities on offense his rookie year either. Make him our Matthew Slater. 

Can't think of any reason why he automatically couldn't. Then again these things are mostly decided by heart and drive anyways. I can at least say Rich isn't averse to putting wideouts on ST in non-returner roles.

That said, Wicks really only has the rest of the competitors and Toure to beat for a #4 job so he might become irrelevant to the conversation.

[Old Guy]

7 hours ago, Zycho32 said:

Can't think of any reason why he automatically couldn't. Then again these things are mostly decided by heart and drive anyways. I can at least say Rich isn't averse to putting wideouts on ST in non-returner roles.

That said, Wicks really only has the rest of the competitors and Toure to beat for a #4 job so he might become irrelevant to the conversation.

People have been raving about Toure in OTAs. They say he's really looking the part. Might not be as easy as you think for Wicks. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Old Guy

[Zycho32]

Just now, Old Guy said:

People have been raving about Toure in OTAs. They say he's really looking the part. Might not be as easy as yo think for Wicks. 

Only said he 'might' promote himself out of possibly doing grunt work. I know Toure was used only on two snaps in ST last year when he was essentially put on the active roster as a #4/#5 guy. Granted, that was his twiggy-like self compared to this year, so that might change too. But it might also be a team policy to keep the main 4 wideouts off the Kamikazes.

[ThatJerkDave]

1 hour ago, Zycho32 said:

Ballentine(good ST guy) and Valentine(likely PS). Expect SJC to be cut. Kiondre Thomas and Tyrell Ford seem to be battling for a second spot on the PS(both could make it, but it might be redundant), but one of them could come out like gangbusters on ST and leap over Ballentine or even pair up with him(there's a slight question about who the other Gunner opposite Ballentine will be, since it'll likely not be Rudy Ford and most definitely NOT Nixon).

The highlights of Valentine look really good.  But, I believe it was Herman that laid out the rest of his stats and the low end is pretty low.  I watched some Tyrell Ford yesterday night.  There was some interesting stuff.  But like that guy Marc Pierre Jean Reno Louis XIV we had a couple of years ago, we really don't know who he is playing against in these Canadian college leagues.  And just like the French Canadian, he does have all the athletic numbers you want to see.

What don't you like about SJC? Too slow? I thought he looked pretty good in preseason, and his App St highlights are very good too. The almighty RAS had him at 4.25 after the combine, but it looks like his pro day numbers raised that to 6.38 from what I am looking at.  

[Zycho32]

5 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

The highlights of Valentine look really good.  But, I believe it was Herman that laid out the rest of his stats and the low end is pretty low.  I watched some Tyrell Ford yesterday night.  There was some interesting stuff.  But like that guy Marc Pierre Jean Reno Louis XIV we had a couple of years ago, we really don't know who he is playing against in these Canadian college leagues.  And just like the French Canadian, he does have all the athletic numbers you want to see.

What don't you like about SJC? Too slow? I thought he looked pretty good in preseason, and his App St highlights are very good too. The almighty RAS had him at 4.25 after the combine, but it looks like his pro day numbers raised that to 6.38 from what I am looking at.  

I'm largely indifferent to SJC. I'm basing his being cut on him simply being cycled out against newer(in terms of on-team experience) talent, which happened to him last year when he was shifted to an inactive role and replaced by Ballentine.

That said, I don't remember if he was just replaced or if he was injured prior. Was he injured last year?

Edited June 11, 2023 by Zycho32

[ThatJerkDave]

A couple more things to ponder, that I don't really know where else to put them.

 

Why did they let Krys Barnes go? He is currently making about 1 million with the Cardinals.  I always thought that he was at worst competent an an ILB.  If we usually keep 4 or 5, why not bring back a young, relatively cheap player?  The second line of Barnes and McDuffie was a strength last preseason, IMO.

 

We hear about Samori Toure making a jump, but has anyone actually seen it? I like the guy, and I hope it is true.  But I am also old enough to remember all of those seasons where Robert Ferguson put it all together and was primed for a break out.  

 

With the reports of Clifford playing well, and my optimism with the offensive line, I expect to get some real competition with the WRs.  Dontayvion Wicks probably has the inside track at a 5th WR spot, based on his draft status.  But I would put Jadakis Bonds, Jeff Cotton, Grant DuBose, Malik Heath, Bo Melton, and Duece Watts all in a battle for a sixth roster spot and PS spots.  Who are your early favorites among the group? Of note, I believe that Clifford and Heath have made quite a few connections in practice.  I am not sure that we have an Allen Lazard type of UDFA here, but I like Watts and Bonds, and given the opportunity, I think they could make a Geronimo Allison type of impact.

[ThatJerkDave]

27 minutes ago, Zycho32 said:

I'm largely indifferent to SJC. I'm basing his being cut on him simply being cycled out against newer(in terms of on-team experience) talent, which happened to him last year when he was shifted to an inactive role and replaced by Ballentine.

That said, I don't remember if he was just replaced or if he was injured prior. Was he injured last year?

I am currently looking to see if he was injured or just inactive.  He only played in 6 games last season and had 3 defensive snaps and 72 STs snaps.  All were down from 14 games, 37 defensive, 231 STs as a rookie.  I guess I have never had a moment where I saw SJC and was like, "oh no! SJC is on the field!" But if other guys are better, then they are better.

 

 

[edit]

SJC was inactive from week 8 through the end of the season.  I didn't go through the whole season, but he was out with an ankle injury in week 8.  I randomly took week 15, and he was no longer listed on the injury report.  I don't see any transactions that say he was put on IR.  It leads me to assume that he was injured at one point, but not to the extent to be put on IR, and was healthy enough not to be on the injury report later in the season.

Edited June 11, 2023 by ThatJerkDave

[Refugee]

3 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

 

Why did they let Krys Barnes go? He is currently making about 1 million with the Cardinals.  I always thought that he was at worst competent an an ILB.  If we usually keep 4 or 5, why not bring back a young, relatively cheap player?  The second line of Barnes and McDuffie was a strength last preseason, IMO.

 

Tariq Carpenter is making a shift to LB/hybrid. We also have other bodies there including 7year vet Wilson who has some decent numbers on defense, with some interceptions and lots of ST experience. It’s been said here before, but one obvious difference between Pettine’s and Barry’s system is emphasis on ILB instead of safety. Barry wants versatile ILB who can cover. Safety is more stay in your lane and be able to step up in run support. Unless you are the “star” which could be any DB allowed to roam a bit. You want a top athlete there. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Refugee

[R T]

29 minutes ago, Refugee said:

Tariq Carpenter is making a shift to LB/hybrid. We also have other bodies there including 7year vet Wilson who has some decent numbers on defense, including some interceptions and lots of ST experience. It’s been said here before, but one obvious difference between Pettine’s and Barry’s system is emphasis on ILB instead of safety. Barry wants versatile ILB who can cover. Safety is more stay in your lane and be able to step up in run support. Unless you are the “star” which could be any DB allowed to roam a bit. You want a top athlete there. 

Barnes was a very good fit for Pettine's defense, not so much in Barry's. Two fairly different ILB types wanted for those two defenses. 

[Refugee]

8 minutes ago, R T said:

Barnes was a very good fit for Pettine's defense, not so much in Barry's. Two fairly different ILB types wanted for those two defenses. 

Exactly. Barnes definitely has heart and showed decent instincts but probably doesn’t have the ability to cover the way Barry will ask of his guys. McDuffie probably doesn’t either but he’s our “thumper” and you need at least one of those guys for the days teams just want to brawl. Of course all ILB should have at least some role on ST. The body type and heat seeking missile temperament fits there. 

Also, Gute had to show Jordan who was in charge.  You’re QB1 now, but I can take away the ones that you love. Got to get the hierarchy back in place after the chaos of the past few years. 

[Mazrimiv]

4 hours ago, Old Guy said:

People have been raving about Toure in OTAs. They say he's really looking the part. Might not be as easy as yoy think for Wicks. 

There are so many young skill guys developing on offense that it's hard to pick anyone to focus on.  Other than Love, Toure might be the guy I am most curious about how they look in camp.

[craig]

6 hours ago, Mazrimiv said:

There are so many young skill guys developing on offense that it's hard to pick anyone to focus on.  Other than Love, Toure might be the guy I am most curious about how they look in camp.

Yes, very interested in Toure.  Kind of different than thinking about the last guy in the OLB or CB room.  As WR-4, he's got a chance to play a lot of snaps, and may split a lot of the different packages with Reed as WR-3a/3b.  

In SB era, they had a bunch of guys who were UDFA or late round.  Driver, Tramon, Shields, Cullen Jenkins, even role guys like John Kuhn and Frank Zombo.  Would be super nice to click on somebody like Toure, the 3rd of the 7th rounders.  

[craig]

On 6/11/2023 at 8:29 AM, R T said:

One of the really fun things to watch this coming training camp will be the roster spot battles at almost every position. The past few seasons many of those spots were taken by older vets and there were few spots up for grabs like this year, should be a very spirited camp. 

1. Competition among roster-safe guys seem high this year, in terms of who will snaps.  OL Nijman, Newman, Runyan, Tom, Myers, none are getting cut; but which will start, and will the two who don't get passed by other guys?  WR Reed, Toure, and Wicks will all make the roster, but how will they stack?  TE, Musgrave, Kraft, DeGuara, and Davis are on roster; but how will MLF use them and divide snaps and packages?  DL Wyatt, Wooden, Slaton all make roster; but how much will they each get used?  VanNess is roster-locked; but how much will he get used?  
2. There is always competition for roster spots at the back of position groups.  For last spot(s) in a room; for last spots on the 53; for spots on ST; and for spots on the 69.  I'm not sure I see any more of that type of competition than usual?
3. I wonder if there's almost maybe a little less this year and last than in years past?  Under TT and early Gute, I don't think veterans were usually very involved in many of those back-of-roster competitions.  Usually new guys competing with red-shirt 2nd/3rd year D+D guys under TT and Gute.  But with Rich B coming over, I think he's maybe been allowed to stack the back of the roster with more veteran ST guys?  Maybe TT wouldn't have had Leavitt and Balentine around, and might already have been ready to roll it over with guys like Garvin?  Or maybe I'm crazy, and back-of-roster is no more vet-heavy than it ever was.
4. Certainly lots of competition for both snaps and for ST roles, though.  With so many young guys, and with Gute stacking lots and lots of 3rd-day draft picks lately, not a lot of players where you already pretty much know how good they'll be and how much they'll get used.  

 

[Arthur Penske]

[vegas492]

I didn't realize that JA was there???