WindyCity Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 2 hours ago, G08 said: ^^ Off to Baltimore on a VISIT A big 1 year deal for Meredith would be the worst case scenario for the Bears. They would have to pay him more and still not have him locked up long term. If he signs a 1 year 9 million dollar deal with Indy, we match, we are paying him 6 million more and he is still going to be a free agent. I am hoping somewhere in the rules it must be a multi year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 20 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: According to Spotrac Fuller’s cap number for 2018 is $6.5M, or just over half of what he was set to count against the cap under the transition tag ($12.9M). http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/kyle-fuller-14423/ Had we franchise tagged him his salary this year would have been north of $15M and we still wouldn’t have found out his market value going into next offseason and almost certainly wouldn’t be able to tag him again. In all likelihood that would have meant Fuller elsewhere in 2019. The transition tag removed all those barriers to the ultimate goal of a long term deal that’s agreeable to both sides. So, we're talking a $2.1 million dollar difference between the tag he had and the franchise tag, correct? The lower cap figure (which I'm skeptical of, by the way) comes because he's signed for multiple years now. And the whole issue with the market value is simple--had he played well after being franchised, we would have known his market value. As it was, we signed him to nearly top level money without knowing his market value. Which is a problem, and my entire point. If the ultimate goal was a long term deal, then they could have cut one without tagging him at all. 17 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: His contract is excellent for the Bears and not too bad for kyle. It was a very poor effort from gb and was incredibly bone headed move on their part. Pay no attn to the Bill Barnwell guy who seems to be a Packers homer trying to paint the picture that Pace effed this up. Pace played it beautifully. How did he play it beautifully? 17 hours ago, Madmike90 said: Yes he could have franchised Fuller...and then if he plays as well again next season you are paying him even more on his contract...sometimes you need to sign guys long term or you end losing your best talents...the franchise tag is kicking a problem down the road...ask the Redskins how that works out. You're only paying him slightly more on his contract, at least per year. The length would have been the big thing. And if he remained a good corner, why not sign him long term? Also, bringing up the Redskins thing with Cousins to dismiss the utility of the franchise tag in a general way is pretty silly. 5 hours ago, Rogerthat said: there are lots of fish in the sea. If not Meredith than Hurns or a 2nd rounder or you bring back Inman or Mike Wallace and you still have Kevin White. That's...not a very reasonable way to look at it, dude. It sucks if they lose Meredith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Heinz D. said: And the whole issue with the market value is simple--had he played well after being franchised, we would have known his market value. As it was, we signed him to nearly top level money without knowing his market value. Which is a problem, and my entire point. If the ultimate goal was a long term deal, then they could have cut one without tagging him at all. Having another team sign a player to an offer sheet is the truest form of determining that player’s market value without just allowing him to hit FA. Market value on a contract is, literally, the financial value placed upon the player by a team or teams on the open market who wish to secure his services. The entire point of NOT franchise tagging him was to let the market tell you his value while maintaining a right to match it, and then paying him the value the market set. Franchise tagging Fuller would have been the exact opposite of determining his market value. It’s assigning him a pre-determined salary figure using a math formula that has no specific ties to his own abilities and no regard for what any team would offer him if he was available without restriction. Franchise tagging him is paying him top 5 money even if you don’t believe he’s a top 5 player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 6 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Having another team sign a player to an offer sheet is the truest form of determining that player’s market value without just allowing him to hit FA. Market value on a contract is, literally, the financial value placed upon the player by a team or teams on the open market who wish to secure his services. The entire point of NOT franchise tagging him was to let the market tell you his value while maintaining a right to match it, and then paying him the value the market set. Franchise tagging Fuller would have been the exact opposite of determining his market value. It’s assigning him a pre-determined salary figure using a math formula that has no specific ties to his own abilities and no regard for what any team would offer him if he was available without restriction. Franchise tagging him is paying him top 5 money even if you don’t believe he’s a top 5 player. Bingo. Again i say the only people who are upset with this are the ones who didnt want to sign him to a long term deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 12 hours ago, Heinz D. said: How did he play it beautifully Bc he had a plan and executed it. They always wanted a long term deal for Fuller. Fullers agent was likely looking for something around Johnsons deal, the Bears reportedly were offering 10 per. Had the franchise tag been used $16 per becomes the starting point. You arent signing him to a long term deal for less than that. On top of that no team is giving up 2 1st round picks to sign Kyle, so now he also isnt able to find out his market #. That is a bad option all around. If you let him just walk and say we'll match you risk him not giving the opportunity to match and all you get is a comp pick, that they cant even get bc of all the signings they did. Thats a bad option. Instead we get the transition tag. Starting point in negotiation becomes $13per. Bears have the right to match. Kyle gets to find out his true market value. The Bears probably had an offer ready to go for pretty close to the $14 per he ended up signing for, and his cap hit was significantly reduced. (No need to be skeptical of that btw. He has a $1m base this year plus $4.5 sb prorated, plus other bonuses, totaling $6.5M versus $12.9M he would have received under the tag). This is why the Bears matched the offer in an hour when they had 5 days to decide. Respectfully it took longer for the lawyers to go over the terms of the contract than it did for the Bears to make the decision. Thats how good of a deal it was for the Bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 On 3/20/2018 at 10:48 PM, Heinz D. said: Well...no. He misplayed the Fuller situation somewhat. The Meredith situation considerably. There's really no reason to think Meredith won't have a great season next year. I do think there is clearly a plan in place though, and if the Colts sign Meredith I'm still far from ready to give up on Pace. Don't you think that maybe Pace agrees with this sentiment and perhaps that is why he slapped the original round tender on Meredith? Just think about it for a minute. If Pace sees Meredith's arrow continuing to pointing up and wants to keep him long term on reasonable terms, then what better way to play this situation other than using this tool to let another team set his market rather than just handing him the 2nd round tender for $3M, and let's say hypothetically he goes on to have a great year in 2018, you potentially save yourself a lot of money re-signing a nice player. I don't think Pace misplayed this situation at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51to54 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said: Bc he had a plan and executed it. They always wanted a long term deal for Fuller. Fullers agent was likely looking for something around Johnsons deal, the Bears reportedly were offering 10 per. Had the franchise tag been used $16 per becomes the starting point. You arent signing him to a long term deal for less than that. On top of that no team is giving up 2 1st round picks to sign Kyle, so now he also isnt able to find out his market #. That is a bad option all around. If you let him just walk and say we'll match you risk him not giving the opportunity to match and all you get is a comp pick, that they cant even get bc of all the signings they did. Thats a bad option. Instead we get the transition tag. Starting point in negotiation becomes $13per. Bears have the right to match. Kyle gets to find out his true market value. The Bears probably had an offer ready to go for pretty close to the $14 per he ended up signing for, and his cap hit was significantly reduced. (No need to be skeptical of that btw. He has a $1m base this year plus $4.5 sb prorated, plus other bonuses, totaling $6.5M versus $12.9M he would have received under the tag). This is why the Bears matched the offer in an hour when they had 5 days to decide. Respectfully it took longer for the lawyers to go over the terms of the contract than it did for the Bears to make the decision. Thats how good of a deal it was for the Bears. I'm assuming they wanted him long term too. Franchise tag would likely overpay him based on it only being a one year deal and thus never seeing his salary slide down the list over the next 3-4 years as other CB got their new contracts. Hopefully, more importantly it would have provided a highly paid CB in season 2 of the Trubisky era. More than likely this would give us a good CB while Trubisky was still learning the NFL game (different peaks) and then leaving the Bears with finding a new CB in year 3 and beyond of the Trubisky era when the football gods have finally decreed that the Bears have their franchise QB. All things in this and probably next off-season and draft have to orbit the Trubisky sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 We are also all assuming that Meredith is a perfect fit for Nagy's offense. Maybe he isn't? Maybe they decided he's expendable, but if he signs a cheap deal we can match and see if there is more to his game that Nagy could highlight in this offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Marquis Flowers returns to the Patriots for 1 year 2.55 million, would have been a nice add to the LB core. JPP traded to the Giants for a 3rd round pick. Chubb seems more likely at 2 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 43 minutes ago, WindyCity said: JPP traded to the Giants for a 3rd round pick. Chubb seems more likely at 2 now Gettleman loves pass rushers. In my mind, Chubb at #2 is a lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, G08 said: Gettleman loves pass rushers. In my mind, Chubb at #2 is a lock. He also loves RBs considering he took McCaffrey 8th overall last year and Barkley is a way better prospect than CMac was. Nothing is a lock. They could go a number of ways being Barkley, Nelson or Chubb or even a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, topwop1 said: He also loves RBs considering he took McCaffrey 8th overall last year and Barkley is a way better prospect than CMac was. Nothing is a lock. They could go a number of ways being Barkley, Nelson or Chubb or even a QB. To paraphrase sting: the only thing certain about the 2nd pick, is nothing is certain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerthat Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 hours ago, WindyCity said: JPP traded to the Giants for a 3rd round pick. Chubb seems more likely at 2 now. Not buying it. Giants won’t be back at #2 next year it’s now or who knows when you’ll get another chance to draft a QB. Eli is not a franchise guy anymore and the Golden rule is if you don’t have a franchise QB and one is available then that trumps everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerthat Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Eli Manning is 37 years old. You don’t build around a QB that old who sucked so bad he was benched for geno smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 LaAdrian Waddle back to the Patriots Frank Gore to the Dolphins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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