CasperX22 Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 On 8/5/2023 at 4:38 PM, Thomas5737 said: Without looking at other names I'd have him 12-14th overall. If it was based solely on passing it would be much lower but what he brings with his legs elevates him, even over the past few years where he has struggled. In the media he is still highly overrated where they list him as a top 3-5 QB. Been a long time since he legitimately should be in that conversation. Let's not get crazy. There are not 12 QB's better than Lamar in this league. When he was being hyped as a top 2-3 QB a few years ago he was definitely overrated. If you rank him in the 5-10 range? That's perfectly fine. Personally I'd put him at 6. 1. Mahomes (tier all to himself) 2. Burrow (tier all to himself) Next tier 3. Allen 4. Rodgers (not sure he can carry a team all by himself at this point in his career with last season being exhibit A) 5. Hurts 6. Jackson Next tier 7. Lawrence 8. Herbert (consistently overrated) Next tier 9. Prescott 10. Stafford Next tier bunch of middling starting caliber guys 11. Cousins 12. Goff 13. Tua 14. Geno 15. Watson 16. Murray 17. Wilson 18. Carr 19. Tannehill Next tier fringe starters/elite backups 20. Fields 21. Mac Jones 22. Daniel Jones 23. Garrapolo Next tier rookies/placeholders 24. Young (easily could jump up quickly) 25. Pickett 26. Purdy 27. Howell 28. Love 29. Stroud 30. Ridder 31. Baker 32. Minshew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted August 7, 2023 Author Share Posted August 7, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said: How is the rate in which you effectively rush the passer meaningless? When a stat like sacks, wouldn't be? Sacks are incredibly overrated as a stat. I think pressures are the most important stat to look at, but to say pass rush win rate is meaningless is pretty dumb. You know which stat he does lead the NFL in every year? Double teams/double team win rate--- and he still got 16 sacks the past 2 years. "Garrett also has faced the highest double-team rate (31.3%) of any edge rusher in the league this season. Despite that, he's second among edge rushers in pass rush win rate (27.8%)" Myles Garrett is the single most 'gameplanned for' defensive end/Edge in the NFL each season and he is STILL near the top or leading the league in pass rush win rate while averaging 14 sacks a season for the past 5 years. That right there is what makes him special; teams can do everything they want to slow him down or stop him by throwing double teams at him all game but he is always going to win regardless and get his. Edited August 7, 2023 by AkronsWitness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterCallSaul Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 12 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: You know which stat he does lead the NFL in every year? Double teams/double team win rate--- and he still got 16 sacks the past 2 years. "Garrett also has faced the highest double-team rate (31.3%) of any edge rusher in the league this season. Despite that, he's second among edge rushers in pass rush win rate (27.8%)" Myles Garrett is the single most 'gameplanned for' defensive end/Edge in the NFL each season and he is STILL near the top or leading the league in pass rush win rate while averaging 14 sacks a season for the past 5 years. That right there is what makes him special; teams can do everything they want to slow him down or stop him by throwing double teams at him all game but he is always going to win regardless and get his. “Nah he sucks.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 On 8/5/2023 at 1:27 PM, BlaqOptic said: Myles Garrett - He is routinely touted as a DPoTY frontrunner to start each season but has never even received a vote. He's constantly touted as the league's best pass rusher despite never leading the league in any single stat related to edges - pressures, hits, sacks, stuffs - other than pass rush win rate which is the most meaningless of them all. I also haven't seen him make others around him better like the other 3 guys on Tier 1: Bosa, Watt, and Parsons. Myles has had 16 sacks each of the past 2 seasons and Parsons has never reached 14, and yet you have him above Garrett. Anyone else see the irony here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 21 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: You know which stat he does lead the NFL in every year? Double teams/double team win rate--- and he still got 16 sacks the past 2 years. "Garrett also has faced the highest double-team rate (31.3%) of any edge rusher in the league this season. Despite that, he's second among edge rushers in pass rush win rate (27.8%)" Myles Garrett is the single most 'gameplanned for' defensive end/Edge in the NFL each season and he is STILL near the top or leading the league in pass rush win rate while averaging 14 sacks a season for the past 5 years. That right there is what makes him special; teams can do everything they want to slow him down or stop him by throwing double teams at him all game but he is always going to win regardless and get his. He’s averaged more sacks per year despite being double teamed more and having fewer pass attempts against than a “Tier 1 guy” Micah Parsons has had in a single year. The overcorrection here is something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Myles has had 16 sacks each of the past 2 seasons and Parsons has never reached 14, and yet you have him above Garrett. Anyone else see the irony here? Parsons is actually a guy I think has gotten a little too much love. He's really, really, really good... But I don't think he's best in the NFL level, and I feel like that is where a lot of NFL and media people see him 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Forge said: Parsons is actually a guy I think has gotten a little too much love. He's really, really, really good... But I don't think he's best in the NFL level, and I feel like that is where a lot of NFL and media people see him Parsons and Trevon Diggs, for that matter. Both are really good. Parsons is on the edge of elite status - but neither ARE elite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Justin Herbert is probably the most overrated player in the NFL, and then probably Jalen Ramsey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Not surprised to see Herbert’s name in here numerous times. A guy who is 25-25 as a starter and yet is talked about as if he’s a multi-year MVP. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Forge said: Parsons is actually a guy I think has gotten a little too much love. He's really, really, really good... But I don't think he's best in the NFL level, and I feel like that is where a lot of NFL and media people see him I think he’s absolutely a great young player with a lot of versatility, but if he’s not a Cowboy, I think he gets “great” status instead of elite. That’s just me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperX22 Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Parsons is definitely an elite player. Is he the best player in the NFL like some Cowboys fans would like you to believe? No, but he's among the best defensive players in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 General consensus of both media and fans: "Herbert is a loser who can't put the team on his back and win games. His physical talent overshadows his inabilityto truly be a top QB because he's not a winner" Also general consensus of both media and fans: "OMG EVRYBODY overrates Herbert" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Diontae Johnson, Jamal Adams and Derek Carr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sad People Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, CasperX22 said: Parsons is definitely an elite player. Is he the best player in the NFL like some Cowboys fans would like you to believe? No, but he's among the best defensive players in the league. I agree with this. I can easily see him taking over AD99 because of his age as one of the best defensive players in the NFL in the next 2-3 years behind only Nick Bosa. Edited August 7, 2023 by Sad People Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew39k Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 14 minutes ago, HerbertGOAT said: General consensus of both media and fans: "Herbert is a loser who can't put the team on his back and win games. His physical talent overshadows his inabilityto truly be a top QB because he's not a winner" Also general consensus of both media and fans: "OMG EVRYBODY overrates Herbert" I mean, your user name is HerbertGOAT. I think that there are plenty of folks that look at his bulk stats and act like he's done it all. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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