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WizardHawk

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9 minutes ago, plan9misfit said:

I don’t think Drake Maye is, either, but he’ll be a high 1st round pick. QB is the most overdrafted position in the entire league; not because of talent, but team desperation. @Nextyearfordaboyz and I have discussed this a lot over the years. Neither he or I subscribe to that mentality, but we know it happens. Hence, why I think that many QBs can go in the 1st. That doesn’t mean that I (personally) consider many of them as first round talent, though. 

Agree with them being over drafted for sure. The value of the position has skyrocketed a bunch of unworthy prospects up draft boards over the years.

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Jerry pays Deion prime coaching money, more than any coach ever made before. Deion agrees with the deal as long as they sell out to draft his son Shadeur. Shadeur is a huge bust in the NFL, Deion realizes coaching NFL pros is very different from motivating a bunch of college kids, and Dallas goes 5-12, 5-12, 4-13. 

Then Jerry has a heart attack, Stephen takes over and McClay becomes official GM.

Ok that's all kind of morbid but still totally plausible.

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If Shedeur Sanders doesn't stick around for his next year of eligibility (I would think he would, considering what Colorado is building). But if he declared for the draft, and I believe he is eligible to do so, does he boom or bust? Does he crack even the top round of the draft?

I can't get a read on him when I watch him. Sometimes he rips these throws and I'm in awe of the precision, velocity and speed of release. Then I see some throws and I wonder, is he just being arrogant and half-assing it, or is he really not capable of ripping it that same way every time? Cause the ball will hang too long or sail high like he didn't give it the juice it needed, or the precision he just showed a play earlier is completely missing the next play and he is bailed out by a great catch instead, keeping his numbers high.

I see moments of pocket brilliance, swimming around it with his feet for the right window and aid his blocks. Then stagnant statue feet where if it wasn't for a poor rush a great block on the edge, he would be broken in two. I see good agile movement when he breaks the pocket, but then wonder why he doesn't break the pocket when he clearly should have, and then wonder why he did when he clearly didn't have to.

I don't think anyone can question what he has the ability to be. But I definitely have to question if he is ever going to put his all into reaching it. Or maybe you can question what he can be, because it's the shows of brilliance that are actually the misnomer and not the WTF moments. 

I just don't know.

And I tend to be very hot and cold on my judgement of QBs. I still give Daboys cred for pegging Josh Allen as the best of his draft class, while I was pretty sure it'd be Baker. And while I was so not sold on Goff or Wentz, I was pretty excited for Paxton Lynch lol. And thought Cam Newton a joke, but was totally all in on Matt Ryan. It's my notoriously least accurate to translate from NCAA to NFL. So what say you college football lovers?

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On 9/30/2023 at 3:40 PM, WizardHawk said:

Brock Bowers is a cheat code.

TEs are evolving. Vernon Davis started it 10+ years ago, but we’re seeing more and more of them now. They’re oversized, hyperathletic WRs, which become impossible to cover. 6’5 240+Lb guys who run in the low 4.5s with glue for hands are nearly impossible to scheme against. They’re too big for a Safety to cover, and too fast and their hands are too good for a LB to properly cover. 

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17 hours ago, Dallas94Ware said:

If Shedeur Sanders doesn't stick around for his next year of eligibility (I would think he would, considering what Colorado is building). But if he declared for the draft, and I believe he is eligible to do so, does he boom or bust? Does he crack even the top round of the draft?

I can't get a read on him when I watch him. Sometimes he rips these throws and I'm in awe of the precision, velocity and speed of release. Then I see some throws and I wonder, is he just being arrogant and half-assing it, or is he really not capable of ripping it that same way every time? Cause the ball will hang too long or sail high like he didn't give it the juice it needed, or the precision he just showed a play earlier is completely missing the next play and he is bailed out by a great catch instead, keeping his numbers high.

I see moments of pocket brilliance, swimming around it with his feet for the right window and aid his blocks. Then stagnant statue feet where if it wasn't for a poor rush a great block on the edge, he would be broken in two. I see good agile movement when he breaks the pocket, but then wonder why he doesn't break the pocket when he clearly should have, and then wonder why he did when he clearly didn't have to.

I don't think anyone can question what he has the ability to be. But I definitely have to question if he is ever going to put his all into reaching it. Or maybe you can question what he can be, because it's the shows of brilliance that are actually the misnomer and not the WTF moments. 

I just don't know.

And I tend to be very hot and cold on my judgement of QBs. I still give Daboys cred for pegging Josh Allen as the best of his draft class, while I was pretty sure it'd be Baker. And while I was so not sold on Goff or Wentz, I was pretty excited for Paxton Lynch lol. And thought Cam Newton a joke, but was totally all in on Matt Ryan. It's my notoriously least accurate to translate from NCAA to NFL. So what say you college football lovers?

He strikes me as a guy who 1. is still adjusting to the speed of the D-1A level play, and 2. was more focused on padding his completion percentage than just playing the position. It’s why he took so many unnecessary sacks. Once he understands that it’s ok to throw the ball away and winning games means more than impressing Heisman voters, I think he’ll be fine. Given the overall lack of talent on that team, he’s been pretty remarkable thus far. 

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2 hours ago, plan9misfit said:

TEs are evolving. Vernon Davis started it 10+ years ago, but we’re seeing more and more of them now. They’re oversized, hyperathletic WRs, which become impossible to cover. 6’5 240+Lb guys who run in the low 4.5s with glue for hands are nearly impossible to scheme against. They’re too big for a Safety to cover, and too fast and their hands are too good for a LB to properly cover. 

There's also a ton of draft busts of players fitting this mold. Gesiki, as an example, should be all means be dominating the league. Those super athletic, prototype sized TEs with the speed, size and athletic ability to go up and grab a ball seem to also often struggle with learning route timing, adjusting routes to accommodate the opposing zone coverage, the focus it takes to develop as a blocker, and seem to come into the league with the "Reggie Bush" syndrome - where they think that athletic ability alone will make them an NFL success story 

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8 hours ago, Dallas94Ware said:

There's also a ton of draft busts of players fitting this mold. Gesiki, as an example, should be all means be dominating the league. Those super athletic, prototype sized TEs with the speed, size and athletic ability to go up and grab a ball seem to also often struggle with learning route timing, adjusting routes to accommodate the opposing zone coverage, the focus it takes to develop as a blocker, and seem to come into the league with the "Reggie Bush" syndrome - where they think that athletic ability alone will make them an NFL success story 

Agreed. What I’m illustrating is how the position is evolving toward a different type of player than the traditional TE mold of yesteryear. You’ll always have busts, but that doesn’t mean that the position can’t evolve. Hell, look at WRs. They’ve been getting smaller and quicker. Pygmies now can succeed, where they struggled as a collective group 10-15 years ago.

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6 hours ago, plan9misfit said:

Agreed. What I’m illustrating is how the position is evolving toward a different type of player than the traditional TE mold of yesteryear. You’ll always have busts, but that doesn’t mean that the position can’t evolve. Hell, look at WRs. They’ve been getting smaller and quicker. Pygmies now can succeed, where they struggled as a collective group 10-15 years ago.

Helps that you can’t hit them like you used to…

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On 10/2/2023 at 11:29 AM, plan9misfit said:

TEs are evolving. Vernon Davis started it 10+ years ago, but we’re seeing more and more of them now. They’re oversized, hyperathletic WRs, which become impossible to cover. 6’5 240+Lb guys who run in the low 4.5s with glue for hands are nearly impossible to scheme against. They’re too big for a Safety to cover, and too fast and their hands are too good for a LB to properly cover. 

I agree with everything you say, and yet, these guys bust at epic rates and usually take a long time to make real impact, if they ever do. I will never understand why. 

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13 hours ago, D82 said:

Helps that you can’t hit them like you used to…

Guys like Keyshawn Johnson, Wayne Chrebet, Eric Decker and others would be viewed as total busts by today's standards because they couldn't light up the stat sheet with 60 yard scores.

But back then, without those kinds of guys, good luck going over the middle to convert a 3rd and 4...

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5 hours ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

I agree with everything you say, and yet, these guys bust at epic rates and usually take a long time to make real impact, if they ever do. I will never understand why. 

It's because at the college level, their size/speed/strength/athleticism alone makes them dominate. But in college there's 200k+ players. Maybe 255-300 are drafted or signed. Half that actually make rosters. Half of that are out in 3 years or less..

So in the NFL there are ONLY the types with that athletic ability that made these TEs dominant in college. They have to actually learn to block properly and with technique. They have to learn routes and timing. Understand coverages and when to slow a route or stop a route based on coverage. How to beat a man in man coverage. How to beat press coverage. They need to work hard in meetings and film rooms, and practice fields, not just weight rooms. 

When you have relied on the physical gifts to do the work and not use them just as an edge on top of the work, it usually proves too much for a position that, in the last decade or so, maybe 12-15 years even, were never really football players until someone on campus saw how they could be a matchup nightmare for a college LB or S.

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1 hour ago, Dallas94Ware said:

It's because at the college level, their size/speed/strength/athleticism alone makes them dominate. But in college there's 200k+ players. Maybe 255-300 are drafted or signed. Half that actually make rosters. Half of that are out in 3 years or less..

So in the NFL there are ONLY the types with that athletic ability that made these TEs dominant in college. They have to actually learn to block properly and with technique. They have to learn routes and timing. Understand coverages and when to slow a route or stop a route based on coverage. How to beat a man in man coverage. How to beat press coverage. They need to work hard in meetings and film rooms, and practice fields, not just weight rooms. 

When you have relied on the physical gifts to do the work and not use them just as an edge on top of the work, it usually proves too much for a position that, in the last decade or so, maybe 12-15 years even, were never really football players until someone on campus saw how they could be a matchup nightmare for a college LB or S.

I mean, this is true about other positions too. Why can rookie wide receivers come in and ball fairy regularly? What about offensive linemen?

At TE, the size/athleticism advantage is stark. In my mind, it should be easier than other positions to transition, not harder. It’ll forever be wild to me that you can’t go pluck some power forward playing in Europe, whose NBA dreams have been dashed, and make him a dominant NFL tight end.

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