turtle28 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, e16bball said: Always a little hard to tell if a guy can pick up the concepts related to moving backwards and playing laterally at times — some guys are just straight line players through and through — but I think both of them have frames that could reasonably fit the physical profile of a 3-4 OLB. I think both of those guys are likely to be backup types in either scheme, so I probably wouldn’t be inclined to build much of the decision around them. I’d see it as a big bonus if they contribute much (either way, really). NE/PIT/BAL seem to have been able to make it work for a long time. You do need more “specialized” player types, which makes it a bit trickier. But if that’s what you do, you should be able to develop an understanding of how to properly reinforcing your ranks at those key positions like NT and EDGE. No doubt, there’s no glamour in being a NT. Some guys are built for it, though. Maybe ole John Ridgeway is one of them. Or they could look at trading a later pick to free Siaki Ika from the DL logjam in CLE, as that was a guy that intrigued me as a two-gapping mountain in the last draft. I do think that’s the critical part of the plan. That was the problem years ago, when they stuffed poor Barry Cofield in there and asked him to soak up all the double teams. No viable NT in a 3-4 basically means your defense is a disaster. The good news is, we do know Payne can do it if he really has to. I think we have a lot of the personnel too already unlike in 2010 when Shanahan forced it down our throats with Andre Carter being an odd man out in the transition and we didn’t have a NT. Plus as you said finding NT is key, we forced an undersized Barry Cofield into 3-4 which was stupid, he should’ve been playing 3-4 DE & we should’ve drafted a NT in the high to mid rounds or signed a bigger more stout DT in FA to be our NT. KJ Henry & Andre Jones actually might fit the 3-4 OLB better, Casey Toohill has the athleticism to be a reserve 3-4 OLB too or a serviceable starter but not an above average one. He’s a bit undersized as a 4-3 DE in the run game. If we keep Shaka Toney, he’s perfect for the 3-4 OLB too but we do need to sign/draft a huge upgrade at 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB bc we don’t have ‘that dude’ whether we stay in the 4-3 or go to 3-4. We could sign Matt Ioannidis as a back up 3-4 DE. Our 3-4 lineup would look like this: ROLB: FA/1st or 2nd rnd draft pick, KJ Henry, Shaka Toney RDE: Jon Allen, Matt I NT: Ridgeway, Mathis LDE: Daron Payne, JSW LOLB: Casey Toohill, Andre Jones MIKE: Some combination of two FAs or a high & mid round draft pick WLB: Jamin, Hudson Edited November 13, 2023 by turtle28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Either way, the next group is going to have to find a pass rusher. Shockingly, trading away both of your best pass rushers doesn’t improve your pass rush. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHatesnyder Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 12 hours ago, Thaiphoon said: Picking 11th. We have an outside chance to get into the top 5 if we tank. Idc what anyone saids we need to trade back the first and try to get picks for next year also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 hour ago, IHatesnyder said: Idc what anyone saids we need to trade back the first and try to get picks for next year also. Not if we have a top 10 pick. If we have a top 10 pick we need to either take the best OT available or one of the best iDE/3-4 OLB prospects Laiatu Latu (UCLA), Dallas Turner (Alabama), Jared Verse (Florida St) or Chop Robinson (Penn St) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 29 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Not if we have a top 10 pick. If we have a top 10 pick we need to either take the best OT available or one of the best iDE/3-4 OLB prospects Laiatu Latu (UCLA), Dallas Turner (Alabama), Jared Verse (Florida St) or Chop Robinson (Penn St) 100% against a pass rusher with top pick. It has to be O-Line/TE/LB IMO. No preference between the 3, but those are our biggest holes. I think top of the 2nd, maybe we look at pass rushing help, but it isn't our biggest need at all. I understand people's feeling about Montez and Chase, but the depth behind them is significantly better than what is starting at the other spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSkinGM Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: 100% against a pass rusher with top pick. It has to be O-Line/TE/LB IMO. No preference between the 3, but those are our biggest holes. I think top of the 2nd, maybe we look at pass rushing help, but it isn't our biggest need at all. I understand people's feeling about Montez and Chase, but the depth behind them is significantly better than what is starting at the other spots. What if the pass rusher is the unanimously top player ? Then I'd think you have to consider that player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 34 minutes ago, RSkinGM said: What if the pass rusher is the unanimously top player ? Then I'd think you have to consider that player. I think we have to fix the O-Line and LB core before. I think it would depend on if the talent was too good to pass up or whether the position of need had a talent that was close enough to pass on the pass rusher. I just don't want us to think we have to get an edge rusher early. I know the loss of both Montez and Chase is fresh, but let's give these young guys a chance to develop and see where they are by seasons end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Slappy Mc said: 100% against a pass rusher with top pick. It has to be O-Line/TE/LB IMO. No preference between the 3, but those are our biggest holes. I think top of the 2nd, maybe we look at pass rushing help, but it isn't our biggest need at all. I understand people's feeling about Montez and Chase, but the depth behind them is significantly better than what is starting at the other spots. We have ZERO pass rush now. It’s a big need although I’m not advocating using our top pick on one simply because there isn’t one good enough to pick in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 17 minutes ago, lavar703 said: We have ZERO pass rush now. It’s a big need although I’m not advocating using our top pick on one simply because there isn’t one good enough to pick in my opinion. Hard to evaluate pass rush with the mostly 4 man rushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) Even though it would be great to get a B. Bowers in the draft (if we pick early enough), IMO I really think it’s in the teams best interest is to address the O-Line with the first 2-3 picks. Follow up with LB, CB and DE. From different post perspectives I’m not sure how this new regime will address FA. Maybe an AJ Epenesa could be in play as a possibility @MKnight82. Edited November 13, 2023 by ARTMONK HOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 46 minutes ago, ARTMONK HOF said: Even though it would be great to get a B. Bowers in the draft (if we pick early enough), IMO I really think it’s in the teams best interest is to address the O-Line with the first 2-3 picks. Follow up with LB, CB and DE. From different post perspectives I’m not sure how this new regime will address FA. Maybe an AJ Epenesa could be in play as a possibility @MKnight82. I like the idea of Epenesa a lot. I also think if Bowers is there the extra second round picks and third round picks afford you the ability to take Bowers. If Fuega, Alt and Fashanu are all gone by our pick im not reaching for Mims. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 hours ago, lavar703 said: We have ZERO pass rush now. It’s a big need although I’m not advocating using our top pick on one simply because there isn’t one good enough to pick in my opinion. These guys have had less than two weeks to practice with the 1's and gel. I think we should hold our feelings about the position till years end. I'm not saying we are going to be fine with who we got, but I don't think we have enough sample size to declare it one way or another. This is their audition. Hopefully someone steps up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 BTW - we're Broncos fans tonight, fellas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: BTW - we're Broncos fans tonight, fellas. Yes we are. Going to be tough against Josh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Slappy Mc said: These guys have had less than two weeks to practice with the 1's and gel. I think we should hold our feelings about the position till years end. I'm not saying we are going to be fine with who we got, but I don't think we have enough sample size to declare it one way or another. This is their audition. Hopefully someone steps up. These guys are late round draft picks with almost no pedigree as serious pass rushers. I’m fine with giving them a chance over these next seven weeks but I am absolutely not banking on going into next season with this group. Mac Jones just got sacked like 7 times the game after ours. Smith-Williams and Toohill are JAGs. They’re great depth but they’re not starters. I want to see more of Henry but Jones is already 25-years old and Henry will be 25 in January. Much like Mathis who is older as well. I honestly have no idea why this staff keeps drafting older rookies but it seems like something they look for? Either way, they took a strength, much like this staff did with our OL, and made it a weakness. Edited November 13, 2023 by lavar703 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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