2024 Draft Debate and Discussion

[chisoxguy7]

When I watched Bo Nix in the bowl game, I said to my Dad that he seems like a very Los Angeles Rams type of quarterback. I could see him going there in the mid rounds and being extremely successful.

[JibjeResearch]

2 hours ago, chisoxguy7 said:

Anyone wonder if there's a world where Arizona is so enamored with Marvin Harrison Jr, and Poles is okay missing out on him, that Arizona is the team to trade up? Even if it's a secondary trade after we move to 2 or 3, if Poles doesn't mind passing on MHJ, 4 could be a great spot for us if we covet Fashanu, Alt, Bowers, Newton, or McKinstry. Another trade down could be an option too.

I think the Bears should trade down and get two of these in the 1st round: (Thomas Jr), (Franklin), (MHJ), (Coleman), (Odunze), and (Nabers).  With DJ and two of those guys, JF1 can bomb away lolz ahahhaha🤣😂

[chisoxguy7]

20 minutes ago, JibjeResearch said:

I think the Bears should trade down and get two of these in the 1st round: (Thomas Jr), (Franklin), (MHJ), (Coleman), (Odunze), and (Nabers).  With DJ and two of those guys, JF1 can bomb away lolz ahahhaha🤣😂

I do hope that Poles uses at least one of our first rounders on a highly rated WR. I don't trust him at this point to add a mid-round WR prospect who will contribute immediately, which is what we need. If we address WR in FA, I do think it's likely Poles will wait in the draft before adding another.

Edited January 5 by chisoxguy7

[dll2000]

Okay I watched Caleb highlights for first time last night (couldn't sleep).  I watched a bunch of them.  

Highlights aren't best way to evaluate someone, but it is what I have done thus far and with that caveat here I go:  

Initial impressions of Caleb Williams and his comparison to Fields:

This dude plays a lot like Fields LOL.  They are very similar in a number of ways.  

Speed:

I don't know how fast or quick Caleb is on a track, but he actually looks quicker than Fields did in college.   Maybe not faster in a straight line race, but faster short area quickness.  He definitely isn't slow.  

Now we know Fields speed translated to NFL and Fields looked faster in 2022 than he ever did in college and faster than he does this year.

If I had to guess I would say on grass Caleb is quicker, but Fields is probably the faster of the two.  

Size and running:

Fields is definitely bigger.   But Caleb isn't small in thickness, but he is a little short for position IMO.  He is 6'1 at most and it definitely shows sometimes when pocket collapses in front of him.   

What does that mean?  I think Fields can take more damage and keep ticking than Caleb can.  I think Fields can see better in pocket than Caleb can.

BUT I think, from what I have seen, Caleb is better at avoiding the big kill shots than Fields is.  So that is a big tick mark in his favor.

When running Caleb will more often throw and stay behind LOS than Fields will.  He scrambles to throw more than Field does in other words.   Much more Mahomes esque in his pocket movements.

A big tick against Caleb is he runs with ball out.   So he is very likely to fumble a lot at any level, but especially at NFL level where they have more time to train to knock ball out with every tackle.

If he doesn't fix that it will be bad.

I would say Fields is better runner, but Caleb is quicker in the pocket.  But Caleb may break out of pocket sooner than Fields would due to his lack of height theoretically, but Fields likes to break out of pocket ASAP regardless.   

Caleb will back pedal often so he can see and throw rather than just look to run to degree that Fields does.  

Passing:

Both Fields and Caleb have cannons.   Both can be extremely accurate and drop dimes.  They can both make all throws.

I would say Caleb is better at off platform throws and being accurate with them.  Most of his throws are off platform.  

Caleb makes more insane off platform throws than anyone I have ever seen in college outside of Mahomes and maybe Johnny Manzel - but Manzel didn't have Caleb's arm strength.  

They both hold ball way too long and don't play on time.   They both pass on open receivers when they don't need to.   They both have too many turnovers as a result.   I mark this as a tick against both of them.

People say Caleb throws with a lot of anticipation.  I am not seeing that often in different highlight videos.  Maybe in actual play by play game tape it will show up more.

But Caleb has a much faster release than Fields.  When he decides to throw the ball comes out of his hand really fast.  Fields has more of a wind up.   This a huge factor at NFL level where DBs are watching your eyes and are much faster overall.  

I would give Caleb the overall passing advantage between two.

Way too early conclusion:

I think with Caleb in a lot of ways you will be getting a younger, smaller more inexperienced Justin Fields.   

But he is kind of an in-between Fields and Mahomes as a player.   He is not as good as Mahomes or as big as Fields.  But he is an exceptionally dynamic playmaker like they are.  

But he plays off script.   A lot.  Too much.  This is my complaint with Fields.  This is many peoples complaint with Fields.  We are going to have same complaint with Caleb if we draft him.  Sometimes you need to move the chains and not try to make the impossible TD throw.  

Caleb may even fumble more than Fields in open field with way he carries the football out away from himself when running past LOS and in crowds.

BUT he is going to make dynamic plays that result in explosive plays.  Much more so than most QBs. 

Fields surrounding cast at Ohio St. was better than anything Caleb got to work with.  

Overall, I would say Caleb is the more impressive college QB and prospect of the two.

Questions:

Can he learn to play more on script?  Will he even try if it has always worked for him?

Do Bears want another off script player if they move on from Fields?

Is he a leader?  Does he work hard?  Is he driven to be great or just rich and famous? 

Can he handle adversity and Chicago media/social media attacks of Chicago fans?

 

 

 

[anonymousGM]

Whats all the buzz about Dallas Turner LB/Edge?. I'm gonna pop on his tape. Seems a bit undersized for the end position opposite Sweat but maybe he can put on weight.

[beardown3231]

23 minutes ago, anonymousGM said:

Whats all the buzz about Dallas Turner LB/Edge?. I'm gonna pop on his tape. Seems a bit undersized for the end position opposite Sweat but maybe he can put on weight.

He is probably best suited in a 3-4 but he has ton of Brian Burns to his game

[dll2000]

I think the biggest single factor in deciding to keep Fields or trade him and draft QB (and one not enough people are weighing) is that you have to start to pay Fields now.

He could also hold out.  Every new QB contract gets bigger even for middling players.  

How much less are you getting than Fields in terms of production with your top college prospects?

Is the return on trading number 1 greater with Fields greater than drafting a QB at one and having a lot more money to work with next 3-4 years?   

I just started watching Caleb Williams.  From what I have seen I think he isn't far behind where Fields is right now and is probably ahead of him as a thrower of a football.  More importantly he resets the contract clock.

The intangibles with him are the greater question mark for me.  If you can convince me that he will be a good person, leader etc. I would draft him and trade Fields. 

Not sure if I would like one of the other college QBs better yet.

 

[anonymousGM]

13 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

He is probably best suited in a 3-4 but he has ton of Brian Burns to his game

I just don't know which direction the Bears will go at that position. Undersized 4-3 DE's are not rare i.e. Haason Reddick/Jerry Hughes and Yannick is a bit undersized as well. This year it looks like all the top 5 edge rushers have a similar build and rushing profile.

[beardown3231]

24 minutes ago, anonymousGM said:

I just don't know which direction the Bears will go at that position. Undersized 4-3 DE's are not rare i.e. Haason Reddick/Jerry Hughes and Yannick is a bit undersized as well. This year it looks like all the top 5 edge rushers have a similar build and rushing profile.

You're right. Plus I think it's well known that Eberflus likes bigger DE's. Latu makes a lot more sense from that standpoint

[HuskieBear]

1 hour ago, anonymousGM said:

Whats all the buzz about Dallas Turner LB/Edge?. I'm gonna pop on his tape. Seems a bit undersized for the end position opposite Sweat but maybe he can put on weight.

my cousin played against him this year and said that of the "top" guys he played against he was the softest

[Madmike90]

51 minutes ago, anonymousGM said:

I just don't know which direction the Bears will go at that position. Undersized 4-3 DE's are not rare i.e. Haason Reddick/Jerry Hughes and Yannick is a bit undersized as well. This year it looks like all the top 5 edge rushers have a similar build and rushing profile.

There isn't a perfect "Flus DE" in this years draft within the first few rounds IMO...a guy I am really hoping declares is Jordan Burch out of Oregon as a mid round development pick...Landon Jackson could be another solid mid round prospect if he declares...Darius Robinson out of Missouri is another guy I like but might be too much of a 5T in the pros rather than hanging on the edge.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Okay I watched Caleb highlights for first time last night (couldn't sleep).  I watched a bunch of them.  

Highlights aren't best way to evaluate someone, but it is what I have done thus far and with that caveat here I go:  

Initial impressions of Caleb Williams and his comparison to Fields:

This dude plays a lot like Fields LOL.  They are very similar in a number of ways.  

Speed:

I don't know how fast or quick Caleb is on a track, but he actually looks quicker than Fields did in college.   Maybe not faster in a straight line race, but faster short area quickness.  He definitely isn't slow.  

Now we know Fields speed translated to NFL and Fields looked faster in 2022 than he ever did in college and faster than he does this year.

If I had to guess I would say on grass Caleb is quicker, but Fields is probably the faster of the two.  

Size and running:

Fields is definitely bigger.   But Caleb isn't small in thickness, but he is a little short for position IMO.  He is 6'1 at most and it definitely shows sometimes when pocket collapses in front of him.   

What does that mean?  I think Fields can take more damage and keep ticking than Caleb can.  I think Fields can see better in pocket than Caleb can.

BUT I think, from what I have seen, Caleb is better at avoiding the big kill shots than Fields is.  So that is a big tick mark in his favor.

When running Caleb will more often throw and stay behind LOS than Fields will.  He scrambles to throw more than Field does in other words.   Much more Mahomes esque in his pocket movements.

A big tick against Caleb is he runs with ball out.   So he is very likely to fumble a lot at any level, but especially at NFL level where they have more time to train to knock ball out with every tackle.

If he doesn't fix that it will be bad.

I would say Fields is better runner, but Caleb is quicker in the pocket.  But Caleb may break out of pocket sooner than Fields would due to his lack of height theoretically, but Fields likes to break out of pocket ASAP regardless.   

Caleb will back pedal often so he can see and throw rather than just look to run to degree that Fields does.  

Passing:

Both Fields and Caleb have cannons.   Both can be extremely accurate and drop dimes.  They can both make all throws.

I would say Caleb is better at off platform throws and being accurate with them.  Most of his throws are off platform.  

Caleb makes more insane off platform throws than anyone I have ever seen in college outside of Mahomes and maybe Johnny Manzel - but Manzel didn't have Caleb's arm strength.  

They both hold ball way too long and don't play on time.   They both pass on open receivers when they don't need to.   They both have too many turnovers as a result.   I mark this as a tick against both of them.

People say Caleb throws with a lot of anticipation.  I am not seeing that often in different highlight videos.  Maybe in actual play by play game tape it will show up more.

But Caleb has a much faster release than Fields.  When he decides to throw the ball comes out of his hand really fast.  Fields has more of a wind up.   This a huge factor at NFL level where DBs are watching your eyes and are much faster overall.  

I would give Caleb the overall passing advantage between two.

Way too early conclusion:

I think with Caleb in a lot of ways you will be getting a younger, smaller more inexperienced Justin Fields.   

But he is kind of an in-between Fields and Mahomes as a player.   He is not as good as Mahomes or as big as Fields.  But he is an exceptionally dynamic playmaker like they are.  

But he plays off script.   A lot.  Too much.  This is my complaint with Fields.  This is many peoples complaint with Fields.  We are going to have same complaint with Caleb if we draft him.  Sometimes you need to move the chains and not try to make the impossible TD throw.  

Caleb may even fumble more than Fields in open field with way he carries the football out away from himself when running past LOS and in crowds.

BUT he is going to make dynamic plays that result in explosive plays.  Much more so than most QBs. 

Fields surrounding cast at Ohio St. was better than anything Caleb got to work with.  

Overall, I would say Caleb is the more impressive college QB and prospect of the two.

Questions:

Can he learn to play more on script?  Will he even try if it has always worked for him?

Do Bears want another off script player if they move on from Fields?

Is he a leader?  Does he work hard?  Is he driven to be great or just rich and famous? 

Can he handle adversity and Chicago media/social media attacks of Chicago fans?

These are good points in favor of and against both. 

But with the bold I see Williams doing what Fields was doing too much and trying to get chunk plays because he knew he NEEDED to score a lot to have a shot to win. It like Mahomes at Texas Tech. Put up 40 or lose, hell even if you do put up 40 you still might lose. I mean USC this year lost when scoring 42, won by 1 point when they put up 50, and had 2 one-score wins in a row when they put up over 40. Last year they lost 42-43, 45-46, and won 3 one-score games while putting up 40+. We all saw Fields when they had that crazy offensive run and still ended up with 1.1. Mahomes when he was at Texas Tech had the 128th (out of 128) ranked scoring defense, the 125th ranked scoring defense, and 126th ranked scoring defense in his 2.5 years of starting. Mahomes scored over 45ppg over his last two years and had a losing record. 

So I think there is likely going to be much more pressure to score on every drive than there would be in Chicago. Fields has benefitted from the defense improving, that is undeniable IMO. But the defense now doesn't force him to play hero ball every drive like it did last year. Williams has to do much of the same. They went 8-5 while being 3rd in the nation in scoring, and his offensive cast really wasn't special around him either. 

I think with a better offensive mind and competent defense can help either Fields, Williams, or May (or Flacco  lol). It'll help them stay on time again. 

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, HuskieBear said:

my cousin played against him this year and said that of the "top" guys he played against he was the softest

Id be worried that he is going to be flagged ALOT in the league

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, HuskieBear said:

my cousin played against him this year and said that of the "top" guys he played against he was the softest

If we go DE in R1 the guy I want is Verse. 

[AZBearsFan]

Does anyone else think that there’s a good chance JJ McCarthy goes back to school? He’s not gonna be in the top 3 QBs this year, but he’s got a decent chance to be QB1 in the 2025 draft.