Trevor Lawrence and the Jags - Year 4 (T-Law is what he is)

[candyman93]

When Cleveland has played Lawrence, I feel like he only has success when a play breaks down or a defender slips / gets picked.

[MWil23]

[Hunter2_1]

He’s mid…

[LinderFournette]

2 hours ago, candyman93 said:

When Cleveland has played Lawrence, I feel like he only has success when a play breaks down or a defender slips / gets picked.

The jags offense seems to struggle when faced with press-man

 

Also have 0 answers on a c gap blitz

[notthatbluestuff]

 

[roger murdock]

If you never watched him play Alabama as a freshmen in 2018, would anyone view  him as a generation talent?

 

His physical tools are an A+ and he certainly 'looks the part' but his decision making, and QB instincts are bad. No pocket presence. Doesn't go through progressions. Has shown an alarming lack of progress over the L5Y.

 

I think hes a borderline starter.

[Trentwannabe]

The Jags have had Buffalo's number lately so I fully expect Lawrence to go nuclear next Monday and have one of his best games. 

[HerbertGOAT]

If Lawrence was anything other than "The greatest QB prospect since Luck/Manning/Elway/Fill-In-The-Blank", people would have been clamoring for them to move on from TLaw by now. If not for Brandon Staley, that may have been happening as early as 2022.

[HerbertGOAT]

4 hours ago, roger murdock said:

If you never watched him play Alabama as a freshmen in 2018, would anyone view  him as a generation talent?

 

His physical tools are an A+ and he certainly 'looks the part' but his decision making, and QB instincts are bad. No pocket presence. Doesn't go through progressions. Has shown an alarming lack of progress over the L5Y.

 

I think hes a borderline starter.

He had the generational hype going back to high school; he always had the tools and he was able to process and breakdown HS/College defenses with ease. In college, he had the benefit of a good team as well, though not quite Georgia/Alabama/Ohio State/Michigan level.

 

Sometimes people's growth hits a wall. The smartest in class in 6th grade don't always end up at Harvard. I think Lawrence stopped growing as a player and for some reason he just can't figure out NFL defenses to the level required of an elite QB.

 

Decent QB, would start for half of the teams in the league, but HUGE case of "Supposed-To-Be-Good-itis" and confirmation bias for the media. The 8 or so game run of good play in 2022 bought him a lot of time.

[Apparition]

Hard to pretend he's anything but underwhelming at this point. He could get better but it would require another coaching change, and a recognition that his success is going to be far more scheme-based than previously assumed. There's no shame in that. Brock Purdy is gonna become the highest paid NFL player in history, in all likelihood, and I wouldn't trust him outside the Shanahan offense. But TLaw is not who we thought he was.

[ronjon1990]

5 hours ago, roger murdock said:

If you never watched him play Alabama as a freshmen in 2018, would anyone view  him as a generation talent?

 

His physical tools are an A+ and he certainly 'looks the part' but his decision making, and QB instincts are bad. No pocket presence. Doesn't go through progressions. Has shown an alarming lack of progress over the L5Y.

 

I think hes a borderline starter.

Thank you. 

He had that big game on the national stage and that was all she wrote. He was QB1 the rest of the way through and that was the end of discussion for most people. All Lawrence had to do the rest of his college career was not Christian Hackenburg himself out of QB1 talk. 

To his credit, he didn't. And he's not a trash NFL QB. But every other QB in his class had to do something absolutely amazing to warrant jumping him, and it never happened. The discourse around Lawrence was the antithesis of objectivity. Short of flopping totally out of college ball, his stock was set right after that game, and you were deemed a moron for even questioning it or opining thar maybe he just peaked in college. 

I'd put him slightly above mid, but not by much given there's some baaaaad QB play going on. But he's never going to be a top 10 fixture. 

[Tank4Drake]

Still sucks. Analytics same story as always, his accuracy is all over the place. 

[Tugboat]

13 hours ago, HerbertGOAT said:

He had the generational hype going back to high school; he always had the tools and he was able to process and breakdown HS/College defenses with ease. In college, he had the benefit of a good team as well, though not quite Georgia/Alabama/Ohio State/Michigan level.

 

Sometimes people's growth hits a wall. The smartest in class in 6th grade don't always end up at Harvard. I think Lawrence stopped growing as a player and for some reason he just can't figure out NFL defenses to the level required of an elite QB.

 

Decent QB, would start for half of the teams in the league, but HUGE case of "Supposed-To-Be-Good-itis" and confirmation bias for the media. The 8 or so game run of good play in 2022 bought him a lot of time.

 

If anything, i'd argue that around here at least...he suffers from the inverse effect of this.  He takes a huge hit for, "i'm smarter than everyone and said he sucked one time" back when he was still tracking as the cleanest QB prospect since Luck.  Or just...people wanting to see a highly touted prospect fail.

If he weren't the presumptive #1 Overall pick for basically years...his performance would be viewed a lot less harshly.  And realistically, that's all that actually matters.  Draft position is kind of irrelevant, and his actual performance has been volatile but firmly above average under constantly adverse circumstances.  At least 16 fanbases minimum are lying to themselves if they wouldn't take Lawrence in a heartbeat over what they've got.  I think the number is a lot higher than that, but absolute bare minimum...he's above the midline, even with all his ups and downs and occasionally playing concussed out of his mind included.

 

He is still yet to have an actual competent coaching staff - receiving corps - OLine trio assembled around him.  It sounds like excuses, but it's honestly just Jaguars things.  They hit on the most important piece of a rebuild, and are making the entire rest of it seem like some Sisyphean struggle.

 

12 hours ago, Apparition said:

Hard to pretend he's anything but underwhelming at this point. He could get better but it would require another coaching change, and a recognition that his success is going to be far more scheme-based than previously assumed. There's no shame in that. Brock Purdy is gonna become the highest paid NFL player in history, in all likelihood, and I wouldn't trust him outside the Shanahan offense. But TLaw is not who we thought he was.

 

Even a lot of the greats of the modern era in particular, i think people tend to ignore just how important "situation" and "system" are.  Even the "greats" still require a quality coach, OC that can work with their strengths, an OLine that gives them what they need (sometimes that's different for different QBs), and some sort of receiving talent to work with that jives with their skillset (yes, even Mahomes pathetic WR group still had arguably the best receiving TE of all time - great offensive minds to make the most of the other narrow skillsets they had, and an OLine that takes a lot of penalties but does the job Kermit needed).  Think of the work that went into providing Brady with "what he needs" when he jumped to TB.  Think about Brees and how he stacks up against Rivers in terms of legacy, and what it took to really turn that around and shape it into what it became.  Heck, think about DeShaun the sex pest and how he looked in Houston vs what he's been in Cleveland.  Baker Mayfield in Cleveland being a huge disappointment, now out there finding his stride with the Bucs.

People are way too quick to judge, absent situational context.

 

 

I think if anything, Lawrence also struggles from this notion that he was so highly touted as a prospect, he's expected to be a truly "transcendent" talent like Mahomes, in a perfect situation married to Walrus.  That ends up being the bar...and it's one that literally nobody lives up to.  Regardless of draft position.

 

System, fit, putting the right pieces in place around a QB to play to their strengths (and often a huge element of right place right time) is still a far more important piece of the puzzle than the headlines tell you.  Some guys just don't have it...but Trevor, despite all sorts of rocky mountains to climb in his way during development, still shows all the ability to be a top tier, Super Bowl caliber QB, easily.  It's just...continued to be wildly inconsistent, largely swinging with factors like his health, quality of coaching, and whether he's being given tools for success around him.

[El Ramster]

Am I crazy or his arm kinda weak? I feel like it’s somewhat regress. 

[KhanYouDigIt]

22 hours ago, Trentwannabe said:

The Jags have had Buffalo's number lately so I fully expect Lawrence to go nuclear next Monday and have one of his best games. 

He’s had one bad half in 2 games and people are overreacting lol

Kirk has been a non factor, BTJ continues to be underutilized, OL is horrendous, playcalling might even be worse.

Still yet to turn the ball over which has been his biggest issue.

He is far from the problem.