Darbsk Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Tank4Drake said: Happy for him. Not often a 4th Round Rookie gets a full 9 games trial run to prove if he can show enough to win the job for the next year. We are gonna find out if AOC has what it takes. I know you guys are easily impressed, but if what AOC shows me is “Top 10-12 potential” that’s not enough, I would still trade up. I need AOC to show me flashes that make you go “Wow this guy can he a Top 6-8 QB”. Of course he is going to make rookie mistakes no doubt. What I want to see: - Top 6-8 “Flashes” - Play as a Top 16 QB consistently - Rookie Mistakes and Hiccups are fine. I will even excuse a horrendous Jimmy G level game. 2 or 3 of those though? No. To be fair I think most guys here are pretty circumspect and no one seems to be expecting the next Tom Brady as a ceiling. I’ve only really seen lower expectations such as long term backup QB or average NFL starter floated around for O’Connell’s prognosis. We should get a really good look at him though, not under a huge performance pressure, and from my perspective if we’re in any way unsure we should draft a young signal caller anyway. If O’Connell really is something then you have a nice problem and a potential trade chip. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justwinning Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) Hypothetical question: what would it take from AOC in the final 9 games for you to feel comfortable passing on a QB in round 1 or acquire one from the trade market? Edited November 1, 2023 by Justwinning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickButera Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Tank4Drake said: Happy for him. Not often a 4th Round Rookie gets a full 9 games trial run to prove if he can show enough to win the job for the next year. We are gonna find out if AOC has what it takes. I know you guys are easily impressed, but if what AOC shows me is “Top 10-12 potential” that’s not enough, I would still trade up. I need AOC to show me flashes that make you go “Wow this guy can he a Top 6-8 QB”. Of course he is going to make rookie mistakes no doubt. What I want to see: - Top 6-8 “Flashes” - Play as a Top 16 QB consistently - Rookie Mistakes and Hiccups are fine. I will even excuse a horrendous Jimmy G level game. 2 or 3 of those though? No. I kind of agree with this. It's so hard, even Tom Brady only had 2800 yards and threw for 18 yds his rookie year. He didn't have any elite flashes other than "he can command the offense great" If he looks like he can be 10-12 in his first 9 games I think that shows (as a rookie) you could be even more in years 2-3 and he earns the right to fight for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank4Drake Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, Darbsk said: To be fair I think most guys here are pretty circumspect and no one seems to be expecting the next Tom Brady as a ceiling. I’ve only really seen lower expectations such as long term backup QB or average NFL starter floated around for O’Connell’s prognosis. We should get a really good look at him though, not under a huge performance pressure, and from my perspective if we’re in any way unsure we should draft a young signal caller anyway. If O’Connell really is something then you have a nice problem and a potential trade chip. Ehhh you had dudes saying give Stidham a year after one game…. I can only imagine how loyal they will be to AOC if he shows a lot of Top 10-12 flashes over 9 games. Top 10-12 flashes simply aren’t enough. I’m tired of waiting. Either AOC blows our mind or he doesn’t. This is a business. Loyalty to QB’s among fanbases is something I’ll never get… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank4Drake Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, NickButera said: I kind of agree with this. It's so hard, even Tom Brady only had 2800 yards and threw for 18 yds his rookie year. He didn't have any elite flashes other than "he can command the offense great" If he looks like he can be 10-12 in his first 9 games I think that shows (as a rookie) you could be even more in years 2-3 and he earns the right to fight for that. Totally different era, 18 TD’s in 2001 is like 27 TDs now. I get your point though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Tank4Drake said: Ehhh you had dudes saying give Stidham a year after one game…. I can only imagine how loyal they will be to AOC if he shows a lot of Top 10-12 flashes over 9 games. Top 10-12 flashes simply aren’t enough. I’m tired of waiting. Either AOC blows our mind or he doesn’t. This is a business. Loyalty to QB’s among fanbases is something I’ll never get… I think it is circumstantial. Last year I would have been fine giving Stidham $4-5 million and let him run with a team that was not going to make the playoffs anyways. Also he looked better than Carr in the offense. That option was way better than giving high draft picks to GB to overpay Rodgers and just overpay Jimmy G. If we gave Jimmy a 1 year $10-12 deal I would not have complained as I would see it as an acceptable risk money wise. Now if AOC looks decent and is improving I would be fine passing on a QB who is a reach. If a prospect unexpectedly drops to us in the 1st then of course you grab them no matter how well AOC plays. Only caveat to this is if AOC plays great and a team wants to give us the house to trade up for the QB. You have to draft for value and the rest will work itself out if we have a good FO and coaches. 1 hour ago, Tank4Drake said: Totally different era, 18 TD’s in 2001 is like 27 TDs now. I get your point though. In 2001 Brady was ranked 22nd in yards and 13th in TDs. Those positions last year tallied 2,536 yards and 23 TDs. Unlike AOC, Brady sat for almost his entire 1st year and those rankings are from year 2. Not saying AOC will be Brady if he can match those numbers but Brady was in the bottom half of the league his first full time year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Justwinning said: Hypothetical question: what would it take from AOC in the final 9 games for you to feel comfortable passing on a QB in round 1 or acquire one from the trade market? I don't think it's about wins I think it's more about how high are we picking in the draft. Because in my opinion it all correlates. If we aren't picking high in the draft the chances are Aiden O'Connell is actually Ballin because our problem right now is we're scoring 17 points or lower a game. In order for Office to get better the quarterback play have to get better in the playcalling have to get better. Nothing happens will win enough games to where we can't pick high enough to get a quarterback it's actually worthy of drafting. That happens we need to get the best defensive player available because in terms of office of skill positions we don't really need help. Then as simple as it's put we need to get a right tackle immediately and I don't care how we do it but we're not gonna draft one in the seventh round pick up some guy off the street. I need to drop the guard on day two or three at least. No more rolling the dice on undrafted guys. As simple as it's put if we do this we should be a better team on that alone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 7 hours ago, Justwinning said: Hypothetical question: what would it take from AOC in the final 9 games for you to feel comfortable passing on a QB in round 1 or acquire one from the trade market? I honestly don’t think there’s much he could do to prevent me from taking a QB if we were in position to draft an elite prospect. I’d rather have two prospects and have them battle it out than take a chance on having none. Worst case then you have a trade token with a couple years left on his contract to work out who’s best. It means you’re not in a rush and a panic. With that said, if we’re not in position to draft a kid high and we’re talking about a second or third round QB it would be a different scenario depending upon who we can possibly draft. I want to see O’Connell read a defence, look after the ball and hit open guys with regularity. I wouldn’t want to miss out on a really good prospect to go with a QB who’s decent but not great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 7 hours ago, Tank4Drake said: Ehhh you had dudes saying give Stidham a year after one game…. I can only imagine how loyal they will be to AOC if he shows a lot of Top 10-12 flashes over 9 games. Top 10-12 flashes simply aren’t enough. I’m tired of waiting. Either AOC blows our mind or he doesn’t. This is a business. Loyalty to QB’s among fanbases is something I’ll never get… I don’t think anyone was crowning Stidham but he did show promise and frankly, given what Garoppolo and Hoyer have produced giving Stidham at least a run of games might have been a prudent decision. There’ll probably be the odd one who gets enamoured. I think it’s a dangerous game to try and make a long term decision based on trying to judge a rookie using the above rationale, he could easily be a slow burner who takes a year or two and lots of kids who show flashes are actually flash in the pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 11 hours ago, Justwinning said: Hypothetical question: what would it take from AOC in the final 9 games for you to feel comfortable passing on a QB in round 1 or acquire one from the trade market? I have zero expectations. He looked pitiful in his first start. Held the ball to long, took unnecessary sacks, fumbled 3 times, through a pick and ran Adams into a shoulder injury. Rookie mistakes, but a lot to clean up. Realistically, nothing he would do would stop me from taking a QB. If he balls out, great. Get another QB to compete with him and strengthen the room. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 12 hours ago, Justwinning said: Hypothetical question: what would it take from AOC in the final 9 games for you to feel comfortable passing on a QB in round 1 or acquire one from the trade market? Nothing, even if AOC plays great for a rookie the QB positions to valuable. You can always trade them later for pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 I don't know if somebody mentioned this earlier but I just watched on NFL plus that Ian Rappaport reported Davante Adams wanted Aiden O'Connell to start for sometime. I bet that Josh McDaniels antics against O'Connell when he was talking about how it's not the preseason anymore we're targeted towards that sentiment. It goes back to what I was saying before: the reason why the patriot Way doesn't work it's because whoever the patriots disciple is just starts stubbornly replacing people with patriots people or just giving the patriots people random nepotism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 58 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: I don't know if somebody mentioned this earlier but I just watched on NFL plus that Ian Rappaport reported Davante Adams wanted Aiden O'Connell to start for sometime. I bet that Josh McDaniels antics against O'Connell when he was talking about how it's not the preseason anymore we're targeted towards that sentiment. It goes back to what I was saying before: the reason why the patriot Way doesn't work it's because whoever the patriots disciple is just starts stubbornly replacing people with patriots people or just giving the patriots people random nepotism It's ego. Guy brought Jimmy G here, paid him a bunch of money. He wasn't about to throw in the towel and admit he was wrong twice on veteran QBs he paid. Weird to think, if Belichick is gone after the season, maybe the Patriot Way comes to an end. That style is simply out of touch with the modern athlete. The guys seeing the most success are player coaches. The Bill Parcells philosophy has slowly faded with Belichick being the last guard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersForever Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 13 hours ago, Justwinning said: Hypothetical question: what would it take from AOC in the final 9 games for you to feel comfortable passing on a QB in round 1 or acquire one from the trade market? Winning all 9 games with Farva throwing for 300+ yards in each game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 14 hours ago, Tank4Drake said: Ehhh you had dudes saying give Stidham a year after one game…. The problem with this is that Carr should have been benched by McDaniels earlier in the season to give Stidham more evaluation time. So yes we’re all left with 2 games to help make a decision for 2023 season. Not ideal He proved enough to compete for the starting gig in TC. Which should have been a competition in camp along with a rookie QB (Aidan). However, Hondo recently said that McDaniels had personnel decisions above DZ. My ideal plan was to resign Stidham to a much lower deal than they gave Jimmy G. 2 year , 20 million. More than what he signed for in Denver Then draft a QB to compete with Stidham. We would had more cap space and still at worst would be in the same situation 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.